Monday, 23 March 2009

Braidwood Inquiry - Round 2 Prelude

Up, Down, In This Thread.

William Elliott, RCMP CommissionerHe has had so much time and so many opportunities to come clean, and instead he continues to defend his four colleagues who did the deed.

IF the RCMP were an organization with a majority of members oriented to 'serve and protect', THEN you could reasonably expect that majority to support serious discipline for the four goons and bullies and related dissemblers and liars up the line, who have brought the entire RCMP into such disrepute and shame.

The only conclusion I can draw from this is that he is afraid of offending a majority of Mounties who ARE goons and bullies and dissemblers and liars - QED.


I apologize in advance for the length of this post. Willian J.S. Elliott, the Commissioner of the RCMP, the head honcho of the Taser Cops as it were, has weighed in with more dinosaur-speak just before the Braidwood Inquiry resumes.

I posted the Globe article and I am including all 316 comments that were entered beneath the article as it appeared in the Globe and Mail in the roughly 5 hours that they left comments open. Comments have a tendency to suddenly disappear from the Globe site for some reason - particularly on contentious issues, can't say why.

I was doing a tally on the comments - but they are OVERWHELMINGLY against Elliott's notions.

Don't rush to judge officers who used taser, says RCMP chief, Gloria Galloway, March 22, 2009.

KANDAHAR, Afghanistan — The Commissioner of the RCMP said the angry outcry that followed the tasering of a Polish man who died in the Vancouver airport comes from people who do not understand the pressures faced by his officers.

Most Canadians don't experience danger on a daily basis and don't know how difficult it is to deal with situations in which they feel threatened, William Elliott said Sunday during a visit to southern Afghanistan to observe police mentoring teams.

“I do not believe that most Canadians have an appreciation as to how difficult the situations our officers find themselves in are,” said Mr. Elliott. “They don't realize how quickly things happen and they don't realize how ... often unfortunately bad things happen.”

The Braidwood inquiry into the death of Polish immigrant Robert Dziekanski resumes Monday, after a two-week hiatus, with the testimony of Cpl. Benjamin Robinson, one of the RCMP officers involved in the incident that preceded his death.

Mr. Dziekanski was tasered repeatedly by the police after brandishing a stapler in October of 2007. His death, witnessed by Canadians on television and on the Internet, caused a torrent of criticism that the RCMP used undue force.

"The whole notion of looking at a video in slow motion or frame by frame is completely contrary to how a real human being perceives things when they are in the midst of a situation,” Mr. Elliott said.

His biggest concern, he said, “relates to the public's perception of the RCMP, the public's confidence in the RCMP. And I think that I and the organization are certainly very much concerned about, and aware of the fact, that our credibility has certainly taken some blows.”

More than 60 per cent of Canadians surveyed recently by Harris-Decima for the Canadian Press said they felt the officers used excessive force when they confronted Mr. Dziekanski and stunned him several times with a taser. About half of those surveyed said the death and the inquiry hasn't changed their confidence in the Mounties, but 36 per cent said their confidence decreased.

Mr. Elliott said he would ask Canadians to reflect for a minute before they jump to conclusions.

“I think there is a real danger in us making judgments, particularly the judgments about the character of people or organizations, based on our own limited experience,” he said. “Even in situations where people make mistakes or don't act appropriately, I think there is a requirement do a sober sound examination of the facts or the circumstances and I think the expression 'walk a mile in my shoes' comes to mind.”

Mr. Elliott said last month, that given the “high risk of death” in some cases, RCMP officers have been required since last June to limit their use of tasers to individuals who pose a clear threat to the public or police. Prior to that policy change, the Mounties were permitted to use of tasers in dealing with people merely because they were “actively resistant.”

There have been more than a dozen deaths related to the use of tasers in Canada. But Mr. Elliott has insisted that, even though they “hurt like hell,” they are much safer than firearms and are not lethal per se.


Comments.

Comments closed, censored, hidden, deleted, disappeared from Mini Bush-Obamatieff village, Canada writes: Those who are meant to be there to 'protect', yet can't face pressure when it is for citizens a matter of life and death... those should not be there in the first place. --- Have them train with British bobbies for as long as it takes first... unarmed.
Posted 22/03/09 at 2:12 PM EDT

Mike Sharp from Victorious, Canada writes: And now we'll get 200 posts from people who are only to keen to judge the police.
All of them from the intolerant socially progressive left.
On you marks, get set, go!
Posted 22/03/09 at 2:14 PM EDT

Nathan Cool from Vancouver, Canada writes: Explain why the police lied when filling out their report.
Explain why they confiscated the now-famous tape and only released it when the owner went to the media and threatened to sue them?
These guys should all be in jail.
Posted 22/03/09 at 2:16 PM EDT

The Iconoclast from Canada writes: angry outcry that followed the tasering of Robert Dziekanski comes from people who don't understand the unnecessary death caused by his officers.
Posted 22/03/09 at 2:18 PM EDT

Elmo Harris from Niagara, Canada writes: Too much pressure? Find another job. Something neither Robert Dzeikanski or Ian Bush will ever be able to do.
Posted 22/03/09 at 2:19 PM EDT

gyula szabacs from currently fla, Canada writes: Mike,,, yes you are correct .....but It could have been dealt with in more sensible manner .. They could have left the guy alone in the room ....wait for a few more officers if four could not handle one guy....and as I stated in a post on this subject earlier I now bouncers in bars that could have taken this guy down .....Hell ...use a net....what could he do?????
Posted 22/03/09 at 2:19 PM EDT

Beatriz Perez-Sanchez from Toronto, Canada writes: Perhaps the public wouldn't 'rush to judge' the officers if the members of Canada's various police forces wouldn't rush to use deadly force where it isn't warranted. There is a greater need for the pyschological assessment of everyone who is entrusted with the right to carry a lethal weapon and the authority to use it. Unfortunately, so many of the steroid-brained thugs who populate the country's police forces would be found psychologically unfit for just about any position of responsibility if such assessments were conducted on a regular basis. There would also be a drastic shortage of candidates for the job.
Posted 22/03/09 at 2:20 PM EDT

Richnov * from Vancouver, Canada writes: While I am not a Police officer I am a Search and Rescue and Health care worker. In any emergent incident, things happen so quickly that we don't have the luxury of thinking about or intellectualizing our actions. Our first priority is to our own safety and that of our crew. After that our actions are the result of training, our experience and instincts. It is not only unfair but foolish and unrealistic to judge the actions of a police officer from the comfort of your easy chair or desk. You must walk a mile mile in the other man's shoes before you are even partly qualified to sit in judgement.
Posted 22/03/09 at 2:21 PM EDT

Nathan Cool from Vancouver, Canada writes: Mike Sharp is just a troll. Don't feed the troll.
Posted 22/03/09 at 2:21 PM EDT

G C from Toronto, Canada writes: Perhaps the officers should have 'walked a mile' in Mr. Dziezanski's shoes before they acted.
RCMP officers are trained to work under pressure. That is their job. These four officers clearly failed in this instance.
Mr. Elliot is a lawyer, not a cop. He has no practical experience whatsoever as a law enforcment officer to give any credibility to his comments, commmisoner though he may be.
The only thing he is right about is the level of confidence Canadians have in his organization, which isn't very much.
Posted 22/03/09 at 2:21 PM EDT

harry carnie from Northern B.C., Canada writes: Judging from the video, the Mounties were justified in tasering this individual.At FIRST.
They perhaps, should not have done it as many times as they did. (mistakes in the excitement?)
Thought the taser was not working
The first responder should have been allowed immediate access to the patient.
There was still NO desire to kill!!!
Allowing this individual to wander around aimlessly
in an airport for hours ,WAS THE FAULT OF THE AIRPORT SECURITY AND CUSTOMER SERVICE .
When they(airport personnel) reported to the mounties there was an individual with a wild look destroying furniture and a threat to the public(their perception)
The mounties quickly reacted to what they saw personally, and the briefing they had received.
You may cue the police hating ranters now.......
Posted 22/03/09 at 2:23 PM EDT

Al B from Canada writes: Four against one. Where's the pressure?
Posted 22/03/09 at 2:24 PM EDT

Klaus Gieger from Moffat, Ontario, Canada writes: Tasers have saved many lives over the years. I served as a volunteer (auxiliary) constable in Toronto many years ago...most of you armchair quarterbacks would either wet your pants, or start clubbing or even shooting people at the first sign of trouble.
You really have to have been their and seen what they face first-hand to really appreciate the job that the police do and the type of creeps that they protect us from on a daily basis.
Posted 22/03/09 at 2:24 PM EDT

Mike B from Canada writes: Puuuulease! These officers murdered that guy. Anyone else without a badge would be facing charges.
Posted 22/03/09 at 2:24 PM EDT

R Hopkins from Edmonton, Canada writes: These men disgraced the RCMP uniform. Do you think Sam Steele is turning over in his grave.
Sam would be hundreds of miles from base all alone outnumbered hundreds to one.
These clowns had a four to one advantage and they killed a guy walking away because he had brandished a stapler.
RCMP face danger everyday! No they don't.
Posted 22/03/09 at 2:26 PM EDT

L P from Canada writes:Humour of the day.
Posted 22/03/09 at 2:27 PM EDT

Vancouver Island Voice from Canada writes: Some of us from the island are a bit more considered.

The outcry was deserved. I have the utmost respect for the RCMP and agree that they have a very tough job. This does not however justify the use of deadly force in tragic cases such as this. Mr. Dziekanski would be alive today if the officers would have taken the time to deal with this situation. Tasers are not for quick restraints. They should be used one step before they draw their handguns. Tasers have been shown to be deadly force in sufficient cases now to make this point.
The RCMP must stop investigating themselves. If it was not for the video of this incident the issue would have long since been swept under the carpet and nothing would change. Let's hope that the unfortunate incident serves to modify the general attitudes towards this weapon.
Posted 22/03/09 at 2:27 PM EDT

Coach rich from Vancouver, Canada writes: The public understands the daily pressure of our law enforcement in dealing w/ the unknown threat. But the public also understands law enforcement is a choice, a selection, they are trained, paid to be professional & to be good evaluators of unknown threats.

In this case w/ the RCMP, their problem in dealing w/ Robert Dziekanski was that they didn't assess the situation properly. They had him in a room away from the public in the presence of 4 officers. He was holding a stapler so what threat was he? What need was there to esculate the situation w/in minutes of their arrival into a take down?

In this case w/ the RCMP, they screwed up & they should be held accountable in the courts & in the public forum. Our preception is just that & warrants a review of the RCMP's training.

The majority of the public wants confidence in our national law enforcement agency but their credibility has been blown out the window w/ this one excessive public demonstration of poor judgement.

Commissioner William Elliott, please suck it up & make some changes.
Posted 22/03/09 at 2:28 PM EDT

Mark From BC from Canada writes: All four Mounties involved in the incident along with every committee member in the chain of command that was involved in the hiring of the YVR 4 should be FIRED with JUST CAUSE & NO SEVERANCE PAY.
Cowardly asses like the YVR 4 give all Canadians a bad name.
Posted 22/03/09 at 2:28 PM EDT

New Guy from Victoria BC, Canada writes: Good God, and the guy is trying to sell the story about the poor fellows in uniform who can't manage to get their stories to agree with their earlier written notes. Those notes appear in lots of courts and the judges are supposed to believe they are true, and so the public are to believe. No longer guys. But it isn't just the horesmen. A guy got stopped in Victoria awhile back. The cops manhandled him out of his car . They were not in uniform, were in a unmarked car and wouldn't identify themselves. They would charge him ih he didn't comply. Too bad for the cops as he had his electronic recording device sitting in view on the dashboard. His recording and what the cops claimed was miles apart. Their comments would have been believed in court, after all, cops don't lie! They got him out and searched the car. Nothing found. The Chief later on stopped the charges. The comments by the cops while seraching were sure worth hearing. So two cops are still on duty doing their thing and now the fellow is suing for being roughed up,and unlawful arrest. The cops refusing to identify and God only knows what else. I do hope they get dumped on hard. Serve and protect!! Oh sure, serve who and protect whom? By using a few shortcuts the boys and gals in blue make themselves look stupid. He has a good lawyer. But why does a citizen have to get a lawyer when he had done nothign wrong? Are we now in a third world country with goons for cops? The list of bad apples seem to get larger. Oh it's the stress just doesn't cut it anymore.
Posted 22/03/09 at 2:29 PM EDT

Dave M from Canada writes: Dude!!!! They lied on their statements after the incident. Your BC division then lied to the public. The three that have testified so far were inexperienced and have not faced danger every day. They don't even what it is, if they think a stapler is a lethal threat. Guys falling trees on the BC coast face more danger than your Starbucks boys do. Why don't you get it. If you had admitted a year ago mistakes were made and apologized, this would be pretty much forgotten about. Nobody else, I repeat, nobody else, is allowed to use the stress in their lives to excuse what they do. YOU are not above the law.
Posted 22/03/09 at 2:29 PM EDT

Doctor Beaker from Black Rock, Saint Lucia writes: Spin it any way you want, but if these 4 officers performed appropriate to their role, then Dziekanski was destined to die no matter which 4 RCMP officers responded to the call.
Posted 22/03/09 at 2:30 PM EDT

Paul Sheridan from Hawkestone, ON, Canada writes: 'Don't rush to judge.' Unlike the 4 RCMP who wasted no time in judging that a stapler posed an immediate threat. Now that the poop is constantly hitting the fan regarding this debacle, anything said by anyone in charge at the RCMP can be seen as nothing but crap. They got caught, plain and simple when a person ended up dead. It's time for them to pay for their mistake.
Posted 22/03/09 at 2:31 PM EDT

rob womack from Canada writes:Is it April Fools Day..because his comments are a joke!
Posted 22/03/09 at 2:32 PM EDT

Ryan McMaster from Vancouver,, Canada writes: Our so-called security forces such as Police and RCMP have a license to kill whomever they wish. Why use a Taser?? Just blow anyone's brains out that you 'feel pressured' from. Power to the SERVE AND PROTECT (Themselves) Brotherhoods!! BARBARIANS!!!!!
Posted 22/03/09 at 2:32 PM EDT

Squish_a_p From BC from Canada writes: Mike Sharp, I am from the socially progressive left. I believe there are good and bad in all walks of life and we shouldn't judge each other until we walk a mile in their shoes.
That's my problem, what's yours?
Posted 22/03/09 at 2:33 PM EDT

Ted Andrews from Canada writes: What an idiot Elliott is.
Justification of murder.
RCMP = Royal Corrupt Mounted Police.
Posted 22/03/09 at 2:33 PM EDT

D. Hall from Canada writes: I did as asked and reflected for a few moments.
Then I decided Mr. Elliot's comments are self serving piffle. As long as this is his reaction, there will be no improvement in the RCMP. And they need to improve or be abolished.
Posted 22/03/09 at 2:33 PM EDT

Mark Shore from Ottawa, Canada writes: Richnov, paramedics, SAR techs and firefighters face stressful, life-or-death situations in the course of their jobs as well. And the only complaint I'd have about firefighters is some take too many risks when responding to calls.

Members of these other professions rarely, if ever, cause unlawful injuries or deaths, respond to simple lack of cooperation with disproportionate and escalating levels of force, or routinely lie about their actions with the complicity of the Crown.

Oddly enough, firefighters are far more popular then police officers with the public.

Elliot SHOULD have said that the RCMP exists first and foremost on a bond of trust with Canadians, and that any officer - regardless of rank - who was incapable of acting ethically, responsibly and with respect to the public would be unfit to remain with the force.

Instead, for reasons of his own he CHOSE to defend four dispensable goons.
Posted 22/03/09 at 2:34 PM EDT

Joseph Bloggins from Canada writes: Most people voicing their opinions on this and most other matters have no idea what they are talking about. An empty vessel makes the most noise.
Posted 22/03/09 at 2:37 PM EDT

Hound Dog from canada, Canada writes: Mr. Elliott should resign. He is not cut out to a RCMP chief, let along a cop.
He might make the grade to be mall cop but that it pushing it.
Go hang out in mall Mr. Elliott if you can not stand the heat.
And leave your TASER behind just in case you get the urge to TASER some kiddies at the mall!
What a bunch of cowards!
Cry us a river with your complaints on how hard the job is
Posted 22/03/09 at 2:37 PM EDT

The Last Honest Conservative from Western, Canada writes: After watching the video that the RCMP tried to conceal and watching one of the officers lying on the witness stand ..................................
..................................................... it is hard not to judge the RCMP.
Was it Elliot that pressured the RCMP 'officers' into trying to steal a that video ?
Posted 22/03/09 at 2:39 PM EDT

m a from Toronto, Canada writes: I'm reminded of the Rodney King trial, where the attorneys for the six white cops argued (successfully as it turned out) that Mr. King, who lay prone and handcuffed on the ground, was jerking his body in a 'threatening fashion' and the six officers surrounding him had perforce to continue beating him until they felt safe.

There is an abundance of evidence that the four RCMP officers in question acted with excessive, and ultimately lethal force in a situation that did not require it. They then lied about it. Since then, despite the fact that there is a toothless 'enquiry' happening, they have been assured that they will not face charges for their actions.

I think Mr. Elliot is wrong - Canadians HAVE put themselves in the RCMP officers' shoes. Most of us know that we would not have assaulted a desperate person who needed help, we also know that had we done such a thing, the law would have applied to us and we would have been charged.

Absolute power corrupts absolutely. Police officers should be held to a HIGHER standard than the average person, not a lower one. There need to be checks, balances and consequences when they abuse their power. Otherwise, of course the public will have no confidence in them.
Posted 22/03/09 at 2:40 PM EDT

Shawn Mckone from Calgary, Canada writes: This is nothing but garbage PR. Don't rush to judge? Everyone should judge. Officers have been given tools that are sometimes lethal and have abused them. The individual officers do bare some blame as there is no excuse for situations such as where four officers trained to deal with adverse situations can't restrain one unarmed distraught man. They made an active choice to use that taser when it obviously wasn't necessary. More importantly however is the policy and culture in the police forces towards the use of tasers that gave a wide grey area for their acceptable and unacceptable use. As we can see here right in this article their mentality that it is okay to abuse tasers hasn't been fully rejected yet, and in essence are leaving the individual officers out to dry.

What is really lost in all this is that for every one of these deaths how many times have the tasers been used in similar situations where a person was simply being uncooperative? Often there is no charges pressed against the person for anything and it is simply officer's enforcing their authoritative will. I know someone personally who was being difficult and was the first person tasered by a certain RCMP detachment after they got their tasers. He was not a threat, but was a prime target to 'test' it out. Even if these things weren't as dangerous as they appear to be, they are still clearly being abused and in a way are a threat to a person's individual liberty. What right does someone else have to be able to choose at will to incapacitate someone and there be no consequences for it?
Posted 22/03/09 at 2:41 PM EDT

Peter North from van, Canada writes: dear officer, please dont rush to taser, beat, or shoot and kill suspects, which the cops have all done in the last few months. you get your day in court, until then shut your trap, cop, and dont tell us what to think.
Posted 22/03/09 at 2:41 PM EDT

Neo Cynic from Nassau, Bahamas writes:Who are you going to believe? The RCMP or your lyin' eyes? Was it the stapler, or the 'pressures'?

During the good old days when police had respect for people in distress as humans, and not as so much garbage to be cleared up before the next coffee break, electrocution was considered torture.

These days, all it takes is a 'bad attitude' towards fascist thugs and you'll end up with a year's worth of electroshock therapy to make you understand the 'pressures' felt by a grossly overpaid $70G a year donut-muncher.

And lest we forget for a New York second, that but for The Video, the corpse would have been dragged off and not a thing said by the RCMP. But for The Video, the kneejerk denials and pure lies of the police would never have been exposed to the whole wide world for what they were.

As for 'pressure', go to Oakland to see what real pressure means. In fact, look to Oakland to see what real pressure causes if the police are granted immunity for murderous impunity.
Posted 22/03/09 at 2:42 PM EDT

Proventus - from Ottawa, Canada writes: It's not the death of a single person that outrages us (although it should), it's the indescriminate way tasers are used. They were intended tio replace the USE OF A GUN, and they're used just because the officer is in a bad mood, is a thug by nature, on a power trip, get's spat at. CAN YOU HERE US??? BAN TASERS. BAN TASERS. BAN TASERS. BAN TASERS. BAN TASERS. BAN TASERS. BAN TASERS. BAN TASERS. BAN TASERS. BAN TASERS. BAN TASERS. BAN TASERS. BAN TASERS. BAN TASERS. BAN TASERS. BAN TASERS. BAN TASERS. BAN TASERS. BAN TASERS. BAN TASERS. BAN TASERS. BAN TASERS. BAN TASERS. BAN TASERS.
Posted 22/03/09 at 2:43 PM EDT

warren standerwick from North Vancouver, Canada writes: The use of tasers is the alleged focus of the inquiry, but anybody watching the proceedings knows that there are even more important issues at play.
To name a few, RCMP training, RCMP hiring practices, competency of RCMP investigations, police investigating police, cover up, truthfulness ( or lack thereof) of sworn evidence.
Posted 22/03/09 at 2:44 PM EDT

Peter North from van, Canada writes: oh the pressures!!
dont like it? leave. try delivering newspapers downtown, just watch out for drunk off-duty cops.
Posted 22/03/09 at 2:45 PM EDT

Adam Rabalski from Canada writes: What a bunch of baloney. 'Hey guys, don't be so quick to judge us on this, all we were doing was standing on his neck and zapping him like mad with the taser. Our job is hard.'
WTF?
Listen, the Dziekanski incident was proof again that there are NO smart people in the rungs on the system. There was no communication between RCMP and witnesses, the airport security didn't bother to find a translator, the EMS was activated 10 minutes too late, and now there's this guy, chief of the RCMP, saying that their job is hard. Toughen up for christ's sake, you guys f***ing killed a guy who was holding a STAPLER. Who didn't even speak english, and was told to sit and wait for hours on end, while NOTHING was done to solve his situation. Bravo. Anybody wanna bet the next person to die will be a diabetic held back at the border by Customs Canada?
Posted 22/03/09 at 2:45 PM EDT

m a from Toronto, Canada writes: Hey Mike Sharp, I don't think it was 'prescient' of you to anticipate that a majority of Canadians are appalled that an innocent man was killed by the police.
Maybe you should use your powers to tell us something really useful, like whether or not the sun will rise tomorrow?
Seriously, you may be on to something, you should have your own infomercial!
Posted 22/03/09 at 2:45 PM EDT

John Francis from Canada writes: We do understand.
That is why the police have special staus in society, why they pick up outsized paychecks, why they get early retirement and fat pensions. 95% of the time they sit around and wait for something to happen but when they are needed to respond our expectation is for professionalism, not violence against an unarmed anf confused man who was unable to navigate the cloud of government bureaucracy at the airport. The man was killed by the government because the government was incompetent - both the police responders and the persons who spent 10 hours creating a situation that need not have happened.
Elliot needs to understand that we do understand, that we do not like what we see, and we demand change - not excuses.
Posted 22/03/09 at 2:45 PM EDT

CEH Vancouver from Vancouver, Canada writes: Next time the RCMP should send in 8 officers this way, perhaps one of the eight would have the common sense abilities or even the leadership to handle a situation involving 'one man' located in a so-called secure environment armed with stapler....really Elliott, please give your 'head a shake'.

A lot of local colleges offer one days courses on 'how to think on you feet'.

All four of these idoits RCMP's show be 'cannned' also fire the the head of the Richmond RCMP for not showing any leadersship skills and for being dumb.

My thoughts about the RCMP today. I do NOT have any respect at all from these so 'cowboy cops' aks as the RCMP....a bunch of rookies, they have sure have gone down-hill since I was a lot younger.
Posted 22/03/09 at 2:45 PM EDT

The Last Honest Conservative from Western, Canada writes: If Mr. Elliot thinks those 4 officers and their trainers are fit to wear the uniform, it is time for Mr. Elliot to resign.
Posted 22/03/09 at 2:45 PM EDT

Peter Kells from Bytown, Canada writes: There was a time when an officer by the name of Inspector Walsh had the courage to walk UNARMED into Sitting Bull's camp (where he was literally surrounded by a large contingent of well armed warriors ) on order to confront the great Chief and explain the laws of Canada that they must respect if they were to stay here. Sitting Bull's forces had just recently decimated a contingent of the US Cavalry led by General Custer.

Inspector Walsh had the courage and the good judgment to confront Chief Sitting Bull unarmed and in doing so earned the respect of the great Chief.

Flash forward to today and four armed Mounties can't even take the time to dialogue with an unarmed passenger in an airport before they resort to the use of firearms.

The reputation and renown of the RCMP was made by men like Inspector Walsh. The people who wear the red serge today owe much to Walsh and his contemporaries. However, it appears that the modern manifestation of the men and women who are sworn to 'Maintiens le Droit' are cut from a different cloth.

To paraphrase an old expression in regards to Inspector Walsh ....'They don't make mounties like that any more'.
Posted 22/03/09 at 2:45 PM EDT

Cognitively Cogitative from Urbia, Canada writes: The RCMP continue to handle this pr disaster in a very inept manner. Admit that the officers screwed up. Regain a sliver of credibility. As long as you defend their actions you will look worse and worse.
Posted 22/03/09 at 2:46 PM EDT

S R from london, Canada writes: 4 RCMP weapons
1 man stapler
Officers are still feeling under threat?
In a liberal democratic society police paranoia is not a valid excuse.
How low will RCMP go to apologize for excessive force?
Posted 22/03/09 at 2:47 PM EDT

you can leave here for 4 days in space but when you return it's the same old place from Canada writes: hopefully everybody commenting has watched (studied the video) before flapping their digital yaps...I think the officers exhibited much bravado,marched up to the scene with a strut in their step thinking that this was a no- brainer ...'been here done that routine'.. ie immigrant acting up ,about to get tasered and will be hauled off to station...then it went awry fast... more careful readings of these situations is desperately needed because every incident is different..
Posted 22/03/09 at 2:47 PM EDT

Rae Farrell from Canada writes: They don't make em like they use to.
Poor things.
Posted 22/03/09 at 2:50 PM EDT

angela white from Toronto, Canada writes: The RCMP chief said it himself - the officers are under so much pressure that they are not capable of making the decision regarding the appropriate use of tasers. Police seem quite capable of figuring out when to shoot their guns. Police understand that there cannot be a mistake in the use of their firearms because a gun is a lethal weapon. Tasers can also be lethal but on balance in most cases they are not. This is the problem, sometimes they are lethal. Far more people in Canada have died in circumstances where police used a Taser, then have died as a result of being shot by police. Police should either see the Taser as a lethal weapon and use it as they would a lethal weapon where warranted in their judgment or not use the Taser at all. The use of the taser, should be akin to shooting someone in the legs - possibly lethal but only done when absolutely necessary. Tasers should definitely not be used on people like cattle prods as a means of garnering respect and compliance.
Posted 22/03/09 at 2:52 PM EDT

Burgermeister Meisterberger from Toronto, Canada writes: What a load. Police officer 'pressure'???? They chose to be part of a group that disproportionately (thankfully) represents some of the biggest hyper-testosterone lug-nuts in our society. Now we should extend sympathy? The pressure is a known quantity that is expressed as they are screened to join - you don't get to use it as an excuse, Mr. Elliott. So then does this pressure okay tasering someone to death? Tasers are SUPPOSE to be a non-lethal option, when used properly ... it is evident by the death toll that they are NOT being used properly. Thus, remove them from these men that tend to act like children/adolescents, in rage.
Posted 22/03/09 at 2:54 PM EDT

News from Ottawa from Ottawa, Canada writes: Elliot says that we shouldn't rush to judge - I wonder, what did those 4 officers do, when they saw a man armed with a deadly stapler - did they rush to judgment? He says officers face pressures - I wonder, how did the victim feel when he couldn't find out where his mother was, did he feel pressured. Should these factors be taken into account? I'd like to hear what those 4 officers had been doing during their shift, prior to the incident - was it bagels or doughnuts? What had the victim been doing for the previous 8 hours or so?
Posted 22/03/09 at 2:55 PM EDT

al, near lake huron from Canada writes: murder, plain and simple.
if the video was 4 citizens killing the polish man, they would be charged with murder, yes?
the rcmp are murderers. there is no defense.
and they lie trying to cover it up.
rcmp=murder
Posted 22/03/09 at 2:56 PM EDT

L P from Canada writes: 'They don't make em like they use to.
Poor things. '

With the economic downturn, maybe just recycle them.
Posted 22/03/09 at 2:56 PM EDT

con hack loser PM is bad for Canada from Canada writes: Don't be too hard on those four heroic cops.
After all, that stapler was in the 'open position'.
Heroes, I tell you, heroes one and all.
Posted 22/03/09 at 2:56 PM EDT

mainstation ... from Canada writes: In any situation, this was at the very least excessive. A picture is worth a thousand words.
Completely excessive behaviour on the RCMP's behalf, not a political comment, just common sense!
peace out.
Posted 22/03/09 at 2:58 PM EDT

Richie Rich from Big Beaver, Sask., Canada writes: While I don't disagree with the general 'walk a mile' statement by the Commissioner, I do not agree with the context in which it was made, or the individuals to which he referred. The video footage, the initial response and the botched testimony speak for themselves, there is no way to spin it. In making the statement, he might get brownie points from some within, but he loses all credibility from all others.

If he were to make this statement about those officers who work in places like Shamattawa, MB., Pelican Narrows, SK., or Assumption, AB., well then it's well justified. If most people knew what went on in these communities and what the average officer goes through in a day, I think that public perception might be different. But, the media does not focus on this and the RCMP does a terrible job at marketing itself, so few people know about these situations.

Perhaps the Commissioner could ask that Canadians not judge all RCMP officers based on the actions of a few. The bad apple spoils the bunch, it's been said, and there are many good officers doing amazing things everyday across Canada. I would know, my dad used to be one of them.
Posted 22/03/09 at 3:00 PM EDT

Vancouver Canadian from Canada writes: Article is wrong. The inquiry testimony shows that he was tasered BEFORE he raised the stapler. He raised the stapler in pain because he was tasered.

I wish the admin of the RCMP would just admit they made a mistake. They have totally lost my vote of confidence and send a very wrong message to the public.

These officers need to go to AA where the slogan says 'take a personal inventory and when we were wrong promptly admitted it.'
Posted 22/03/09 at 3:02 PM EDT

L P from Canada writes: Can you compare apples to oranges?
Posted 22/03/09 at 3:04 PM EDT

Victor Skovorodnikov from Canada writes: I don't understand the 'pressure' argument. Most job occupations have their degree of pressure. We are expected to deal with it, professionally, and no one really gives a crap about the pressure or mental state we are in when we are expected to do our job. Will our clients understand why website is not working if I ask them to walk in my software developer's shoes?
How is RCMP's situation any different?
Posted 22/03/09 at 3:04 PM EDT

harry carnie from Northern B.C., Canada writes: Will observe... there should be TIMELY INDEPENDENT PUBLIC INQUIRIES into ALL police involved deaths.
THIS WORKS VERY EFFECTIVELY IN ONTARIO.
Fair for all;
1) The individual involved and his family.
2) Clears the police officer of any cloud,if innocent
3) Holds the officer responsible IF there was wrong doing
4) maintains the confidence and respect, of the public in our Police forces
5) Maintains the credibility of the POLICE FORCES .

If we ALL ranted to have this IMPLEMENTED
it might be a positive step in correcting the situation.There ARE incidents that are NOT acceptable
The Bush killing was one ..and there are many others.
O.K you may ALL resume your mindless, useless
rants. BOTH SIDES........these who do NOT wish OBVIOUS problems in our police forces addressed.
AND those who blindly hate police forces.

In the meantime our society will continue to gurgle down the toilet as it has been doing, with increasing speed.
Posted 22/03/09 at 3:04 PM EDT

Geoffrey May from Canada writes: The Chiefs comments raise concerns about his competency .Treating Dziekanski's tragic death as a PR problem, and the publics outrage as a lack of public undertsanding,indicate a disconnect from reality .The video of the Dziekanski incident show a lone individual, isolated and contained.The police were in complete control, and they controled the pace of events . Their actions resulted in Dziekanski's death , and following the incident , they conspired to lie about what had ocurred . If the RCMP determined that job stress lead to the police over reaction, what steps did the RCMP take to address the problem ?
Posted 22/03/09 at 3:04 PM EDT

Certified Jatt from london, Canada writes: To the people who're defending the actions of these officers by referencing to the pressure on the job: The ability to deal with such pressure is an inherent prerequisite to a police officer's job. There should be an IQ test for police officers; or at least some sort of exam to determine their problem solving skills. Recognizing that I will sound derivative, but we live in a information-based society. The job of a police officer should be subjected to the critical criterion that is central to other, more white collar jobs: Problem solving. We can't have neanderthals armed with lethal force managing public security.
Posted 22/03/09 at 3:05 PM EDT

John Hidden from Puntarenas, Costa Rica writes: Ok, i might be getting on in age... but ten years ago we would not have heard of anything like this.

Training if done properly brings on the best reaction when faced with a difficult situation. Ever since the USA has had their problems, it seems to me that the psychological background to the training has changed.

The police were handed out bulletproof vests and drilled in the art of aggressive reaction first so as to control the situation, UNDERSTAND the situation second... a la USA. All this leading to extreme OVERREACTION, unwarranted, unacceptable, unjustifiable.

WHEN was the last time have we read about outright fusillade at any Canadian airports.

Training. Training. Training.
Posted 22/03/09 at 3:07 PM EDT

ginny ! from Canada writes: So, apparently I'm not allowed to comment on a group of police being unable to deal with an unarmed man? I've made far more outrageous comments around here.
Posted 22/03/09 at 3:07 PM EDT

John Yossarian from Ottawa, Canada writes: 'Canadians don't realize how quickly things happen and they don't realize how ... often unfortunately bad things happen.'
------------------

Yeah we do, because we've seen the tapes. We know full well how quickly the RCMP will resort to force, and how unfounded that use of force often is.
Posted 22/03/09 at 3:09 PM EDT

con hack loser PM is bad for Canada from Canada writes: What con hacks like Mike Dull don't get is that it's not about RCMP-bashing.
con hacks LOVE to spout off about accountability, individualism, and self-reliance - as long as we're talking about addicts, single moms, or any other group con hack losers like to bash.
Cops, soldiers, and military brass, however, are off-limits.
Hey con hack idiots - it's not about bashing. It's about taking responsibility. Something kinda hard to deal with when you're investigating YOURSELVES.
These four screwed up. Royally.
Simple accountability is what most of us want.
Posted 22/03/09 at 3:10 PM EDT

Neo Cynic from Nassau, Bahamas writes: Note that he uses Kandahar as a backdrop and photo op to help gain sympathy for his inane bullshyt. Be they CF or RCMP, they'll happily smear themselves with the blood of our dead to ennoble themselves and their increase budgets.
Posted 22/03/09 at 3:11 PM EDT

Jo Hanna from Canada writes: I don't agree with Mr. Elliott. Having watched and read a lot about this case (and from this you can extrapolate to many other incidents), these RCMP officers were not only not trained properly how to approach a citizen, how to take some time to assess the situation and use their numbers and bulk to diffuse it, how to use a taser only as a last resort and then not continue to use it when a person is down. Just because the person is still twitching in distress, is not sufficient reason to keep administering these dangerous shocks. I want a police force that is on my side, not determined to do me harm.
Posted 22/03/09 at 3:11 PM EDT

Bob ImamI from Canada writes: Mike Sharp,

For the record I would say that I support a more conservative environment, more libertarian, left government, lower taxes, more personal freedom... more along the line of WF Buckley.

I resent the gestapo tactics of the RCMP. I saw the video. I saw a woman have a civil albeit unintelligible conversation with Robert. She didn't seem threatened at all.

But as soon as those thugs arrived it was all about power dominance and rodeo violence. Why on one hand can a woman feel it safe to approach a frustrated man, but on the other hand 4 yahoo RCMP feel frightened?

Those thugs executed a man for no good reason and should be jailed.

The RCMP are scum for not taking a sympathetic posture towards the victim.
Posted 22/03/09 at 3:12 PM EDT

Kirbie Baxter from Vancouver, Canada writes: Huh? Making judgments about how the police handle a situation is 'dangerous'? Then should I, instead, put forth the question as to why a stapler might be perceived as scary? Who's hiring these people?
Posted 22/03/09 at 3:15 PM EDT

Life Insurance Bribe from Canada writes: If police perceive danger, & this therefore causes them to over-react (overreaction - which the RCMP commish is basically admitting), then the problem is their misperception of danger &/or putting themselves in situations where they perceive such danger.... e.g. immediately confronting him in an aggressive manner is going to escalate things... and, their perception of danger being everywhere is a MISperception... how many police in Canada are killed each year on the job? Very few... more farmers & industrial workers are killed each yr on the job.

Until police stop misperceiving their environment, over-reactions will continue, & unnecessary civilian deaths will continue. But, it appears that the police & their supporters would rather have unnecessary civilian deaths than risk ANY kind of harm to the police. Not a great trade-off, unless you value police lives much more than civilians. Sorry, but if you sign up to be a police officer, you assume some risk.
Posted 22/03/09 at 3:16 PM EDT

Jake Richardson from Canada writes: Rushing to judgement? Maybe the day after, this comment would have made sense. After all this time has passed, it's hardly rushing. People understand what happened that day, people understand that the officers involved lied to protect themselves, and people understand that you are simply standing up for your officers, despite all the evidence as to why you should not.
The real question is why hasn't the head of the rcmp started to exercise his judgement?
Posted 22/03/09 at 3:16 PM EDT

Oscar Wellington from Canada writes: Bob Robinson from Edmonton, Canada writes: Elmo you dip....t, the Bush matter is over, cop was exonerated.
Exonerated? Exonerated by whom? The RCMP? Please!
Isn't it time for you to run down to the police station and lick some boots right now?
Posted 22/03/09 at 3:17 PM EDT

Paul Dureno from ESSEX, Ont., Canada writes: So what, Elliot's comments are supposed to make us all feel better? Are we to think that the RCMP prevented a hardened Polish criminal from preying on the Canadian public? If a bullet proof vest can stop a slug from a handgun, can it not block a stapler? And, as for Ian Bush, his death sentence was handed out for having a beer at a hockey game. God save us from the hands of the RCMP.
Posted 22/03/09 at 3:17 PM EDT

Bob ImamI from Canada writes: Make that Less Government....not Left Government....My spell checker is a commie.
Posted 22/03/09 at 3:19 PM EDT

diane marie from calgary, alberta from Canada writes: Here's what I would like to know. Why does Mr. Elliott feel it necessary to chide Canadians and defend members in the MIDDLE of the enquiry. Shouldn't he keep his counsel and let the enquiry proceed uninfluenced by his views? If this is damage control - a case of trying to get ahead of what he suspects is going to be bad news for the RCMP - then his timing is also off.
Posted 22/03/09 at 3:21 PM EDT

Tim Cares from Toronto, Canada writes: Damn right I'll rush to judgment of some police officer that tasers a senior citizen lying in a hospital bed.
Posted 22/03/09 at 3:21 PM EDT

Don M from Canada writes: Just yesterday, a Vancouver Cop shot a man with a knife. I agree with the decision to shoot in that situation. However, he was shot three (3) times and died. Is there any reason that he could not have been shot in the leg and only shot once and not three times. Shot in the leg would put him on the ground and that's all it should take.
It seems to me that whenever the police shot someone, they are shot in the chest or heart. They always shot to kill and I think that is wrong.
Maybe they need some different targets on their shooting range.
Posted 22/03/09 at 3:21 PM EDT

it's raining from vancouver, Canada writes: It was a mistake for the BC attorney general to state from the outset that the RCMP officers involved would not of this matter proceed to a criminal trial. If Elliot is convinced his officers acted properly and within the law, he should WELCOME an open and fair trial. He has no one to blame but himself for the public's perception and allowing the RCMP to investigate themselves with regard to this matter only makes matters worse. The whole thing reeks of a coverup justified and rationalized under 'national security.' Elliot should either call for a criminal trial in court, or shut the fu*k up...
Posted 22/03/09 at 3:22 PM EDT

Island Man from Victoria from Canada writes: Is this William Elliott any relation to Christine Elliott..Flaherty's better half? If so that would explain the bull.
Posted 22/03/09 at 3:22 PM EDT

L P from Canada writes: Cognitively, these trainings of RCMP officers will be so sick that only the tolerable survives.
Posted 22/03/09 at 3:23 PM EDT

Proventus - from Ottawa, Canada writes: Police Services are just gearing up. Just wait until you decide to protest peacefully against the rising tide of taxes and financial laws coming our way. Governments are terrified of revolutions like those mentioned by several prominent forcasters like Trends Research Institue (trendsresearch.com).

Given the nearly $3 trillion in consumer debt at risk in the US (excluding auto and mortgage) an inevitable default is on deck to add to the snowball. And the cherry is the $500 billion in interest in the national debt that will need to be serviced. With a declining tax base. lol. Hense the rise of the projected tax revolt, the end of the Central Banks, and the death of Democracy and Capitalism (but that's already gone right?).
Posted 22/03/09 at 3:23 PM EDT

Jake Smith from Canada writes: My Dad lived thru the Depression in Toronto, and after he graduated from University, he was once pulled over for speeding. He recognized the officer as the high-school bully.

It is unfortunate that the police forces attracted both dedicated professionals and bullies, however, it is more unfortunate that the police forces don't weed out the bullies. Rather they are perceived to protect their own, no matter if their own are in fact the criminals the police are sworn to protect us from.

I recall several years ago, a store video captured a citizen complaining to the police officer inside regarding how he parked his cruiser. The officier proceeded to pound this man's head into the counter. It was a tragic comedy that this person screamed to the clerk to call the POLICE!!

Man, this was the police pounding you. Who do you call now?

Who do you call, when you brush off the neighbourhood whore, and she can make calls to one of her lovers that happens to be a detective?

As a democracy, we have freedom of speech to provide criticism of our politicians, doctors, teachers, etc. However, I perceive the police wish to label us as police haters in order to silence constructive criticism.

Our politicians need to serious consider changes to the laws to provide better police oversight, fire the bullies, and hire police with balls to deal with the real criminals.
Posted 22/03/09 at 3:23 PM EDT

North Star from Canada writes: Throughout his testimony the RCMP officer was forced to recant his and the other officers' statements regarding the details of the incident. At many times there were audible gasps of disbelief from those watching when the officers' statements were contrasted the clear evidence of the video footage.
Warren Elliot has failed his mandate to regain public trust of the RCMP.
Posted 22/03/09 at 3:23 PM EDT

Alex De Large from Paris, Canada writes: Please Mr. Elliot, I'm Canadian - I saw the video and I have heard the testimony of three of the officers involved so far.

I can do whatever I want to do in regard to this incident. I do not think it is a rush to judgment to figure out that something is amiss in the way that the RCMP have handled this situation. In fact just about everyone I have spoken to regarding this incident says the same thing - YOU and the RCMP have a big problem with this case! It has shown that your officers are not above fudging facts, collusion, blaming victims etc etc etc.

If you do not understand that this WILL cause significant problems down the road with other cases in front of the courts and in the court of public opinion - WOW, you are out to lunch or living in a bubble. My advice, spend the money on your house and forget training Afghanis
Posted 22/03/09 at 3:25 PM EDT

An Ape in the Fog from Calgary, Canada writes: I am in agreement with Warren Standerwick from North Vancouver who summed it up nicely with 'there are even more important issues at play.

To name a few, RCMP training, RCMP hiring practices, competency of RCMP investigations, police investigating police, cover up, truthfulness ( or lack thereof) of sworn evidence.'

The RCMP have failed the public that they are allegedly here to serve and protect.
Posted 22/03/09 at 3:25 PM EDT

r snow from Canada writes: After watching the video several times, I still have come to the same conclusion. The four officiers did not take any time whatsoever to evaluate the situatiion. It was a quick get in get the job done and go to break type of deal. They never made any attempt to deescalate the situation. They was no slow approach with an attempt to communicate with Mr. Dziekanski to see what his problem was. Their also was no reason for them to worry weither Mr. Dziekanski would have a weapon as he was in a secure part of the airport. Witnesses were also standing nearby, who did not appear to be threated by Mr. Dziekanski, but were concerned about his actions. I feel that our RCMP has lost their ability to serve an protect, that they were once world famous for. The RCMP always get their man, was a common saying, and their man was usually always alive to stand trial. This was truly a sad day for Mr. Dziekanski, his family and friends, The RCMP and our Counrty. The infamous four as well as the airport staff should be all ashamed of their actions. So too should most of us as this world is becoming more of 'it's all about me' attitude. It is about time we all started to be our brothers keeper. If we all did a small part in helping one another, this world would be a much better place. That is how Canada was once the great Counrty to live in. Neighbour helping neighbour, friend helping friend....it was once how we were precived. Truly a terrible rant, but it is the truth....think about it!
Posted 22/03/09 at 3:26 PM EDT

L P from Canada writes: Keep your crew.
Posted 22/03/09 at 3:26 PM EDT

VOCM Listener from Toronto, Canada writes: These officers committed murder, plain and simple. To make matters worst they lied and tried to conceal their actions. This 'walk in their shoes before you judge' is silly, we all saw the video. While this is totally unacceptable, no one should be surprised given the RCMP is known to be led by liars at the highest level given it was only a year or so ago when the top leadership was forced to resign for lying, etc.
Posted 22/03/09 at 3:27 PM EDT

North Star from Canada writes: Warren Elliott's response leads Canadians to wonder if RCMP officers are even able to make proper decisions in the field.
Posted 22/03/09 at 3:27 PM EDT

Been There Done It from Canada writes: Pressure.....that was no pressure according to the video. Like I said before...6 months training to be an RCMP...ridiculous. You need more training to be a school teacher or nurse or carpenter for crying out loud. RCMP training should be 4 years training. This 6 month training of kids is garbage........and I mean kids. Can't get enough people to enroll.....then pay higher wages to better trained people.
Posted 22/03/09 at 3:27 PM EDT

con hack loser PM is bad for Canada from Canada writes: 'Mike Sharp from Victorious, Canada writes: Let's check in and see how the lynch mob is shaping up.

Burning torches... check.
Length of rope... check.
Pitchforks... check.
Pointed sticks... check.
Sturdy oak out back... check.
Histrionic cries of outrage... check.'

Don't forget - con hack loser apologist trolls... check.
Posted 22/03/09 at 3:30 PM EDT

Mahmoud Ali from Edmonton, Canada writes: A very silly remark by Mr Elliot. Of course life doesn't take place in slow motion but that hardly means it can't be used for investigative purposes. Athletes don't perform in slow motion but that doesn't prevent the use of slow-motion reviews for the purpose of overturning referee decisions.

The reason Mr Elliot doesn't like the video is because it contradicts the RCMP officers' story. Four officers are confronting a single passenger in a secure zone after arriving on a flight. He wouldn't even have a tweezer on him nor more than 100 ml of fluid. Most people wouldn't need a video to understand that it is situation easily handled by professionals.
Posted 22/03/09 at 3:31 PM EDT

David Eaket from Calgary, writes: It might be possible to accept his argument - except for the obvious lies his men told on the witness stand. Clearly we cannot leave the RCMP, or any other police force, withought accountability.
Posted 22/03/09 at 3:32 PM EDT

Percy from NL from Canada writes: Clearly these RCMP officers continue to not handle this situation well. I know many people who work in group homes for troubled youth that would put them to shame over their initial actions.

But the greatest problem seems to be that they are making things worse everytime they open their mouths. The RCMP is one of the world's best police forces, but that doesn't mean they do not make mistakes. Their loss of reputation of every police officer comes when they deny and try to cover up their mistakes.

The same story from each officer, with all of the same mistakes? Then they deny they have spoken to one another as to what to say? Come on guys, own up to your mistake and, by doing so, uphold the reputation of all RCMP officers.
Posted 22/03/09 at 3:32 PM EDT

Cognitively Cogitative from Urbia, Canada writes: Anybody who defends the actions of those four officers is a doorknob. I don't care if you are the chief or one of the posters here. You're still a doorknob.
Posted 22/03/09 at 3:33 PM EDT

Darren in TO from Canada writes: Pressures faced by law enforcement??? He is sidetracking the issue.Many Canadians, myself included, have learnt first hand that law enforcement is increasingly attracing people with two serious flaws;

1) Poor pressure handling skills
2) Bully tendincies

You combine these together and you have unskilled people with weapons in their hands who only understand the use of force, and more then willing to use it to gani the upperhand during a confrontation. Most law enforcement officers nowadays are no different then some bully in any highschool in Canada. The RCMP should cut to the chase and hire directly from highschools
Posted 22/03/09 at 3:33 PM EDT

Marc Twane from Canada writes: ...now why wouldn't he have the guts to make those same comments in Canada instead of half a world away???
Posted 22/03/09 at 3:35 PM EDT

Just One of 67% of Canadians Harper Doesn't Stand For from Canada writes: What a load of malarky Elliott is trying to peddle here.

Before the YVR 4 even got to the room Mr. D was in one of the heroes asked 'Are we going to taser him?' It's on tape.

The only hero in this gross error in judgement and despicable killing is the guy who filmed it. If he hadn't can you imagine the story Canadians, Poles and the rest of the world would be asked to swallow?

The biggest liar is going to testify tomorrow. Nice try in seeding the ground, Elliott, but your judgement is faulty if you think Canadians and the world are buying your malarky.
Posted 22/03/09 at 3:36 PM EDT

Slippery Slope from Canada writes: There is a reason that most Canadians feel that the RCMP officers used excessive force in that incident:

Because they DID use excessive force!
Posted 22/03/09 at 3:36 PM EDT

Burdened Soul from Canada writes: Don't rush to judge officers who used taser, says RCMP chief

Hey! I won't rush to judge if you don't rush to use them!
Posted 22/03/09 at 3:38 PM EDT

Gardiner Westbound from Canada writes: .If four young, well armed, kevlar vest wearing policemen felt pressured by a middle-aged man with a stapler they should find a new line of work. So should Elliot.
Posted 22/03/09 at 3:38 PM EDT

Ted George from Canada writes: Benjamin Montgomery Robinson is scheduled to testify this week at the Braidwood Inquiry. He was 'in charge' of these killers and has since killed a man while driving impaired.
Posted 22/03/09 at 3:39 PM EDT

VOCM Listener from Toronto, Canada writes: m a from Toronto, Canada writes: Hey Mike Sharp Seriously, you may be on to something, you should have your own infomercial! ma, you should have said, he is on something
Posted 22/03/09 at 3:39 PM EDT

Cognitively Cogitative from Urbia, Canada writes: If we've learned anything from this its that the RCMP cannot be trusted to be accountable if there is no video. Therefore I propose that all officers be equipped with video cameras mounted on their helmets or hats or whatever (will take suggestions as to where to mount them). This is the only way they can be held accountable. This however doesn't seem to stop them from contradicting the video evidence under oath but at least we'll still have the video.
Posted 22/03/09 at 3:41 PM EDT

The Natrix from Toronto, Canada writes: Simple explanation.

Canadian Authorities in their attempt to try to show the BIG US Brother, 'Hey WE ARE TOUGH TOO!!', just go a zapping.
Posted 22/03/09 at 3:42 PM EDT

Mike Sharp from Victorious, Canada writes: Doctor Beaker from Black Rock, Saint Lucia writes: Spin it any way you want, but if these 4 officers performed appropriate to their role, then Dziekanski was destined to die no matter which 4 RCMP officers responded to the call.
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Ahhh... This fellow is closer to getting it. And it's not about blaming the victim. In my view, how does a man spend ten hours in an airport and never seek help?
It's irrational. I believe there were extenuating circumstances. Robert was irrational, physically unwell and out of control. Did his compromised health contribute to his death? People are tasered all the time and don't die. Ipso facto, if people are tasered all the time and don't die then why did Robert die from being tasered?
Posted 22/03/09 at 3:42 PM EDT

Anthony B from Maritimes, Canada writes: 'The Commissioner of the RCMP said the angry outcry that followed the tasering of a Polish man who died in the Vancouver airport comes from people who do not understand the pressures faced by his officers.'

We've all seen the video - four trained and armed police officers versus one confused and unarmed civilian. If this is 'pressure' these gutless cowards should be in some other line of work. Mr. Elliott's comment speaks volumes about the selection process for hiring those who are supposed to serve and protect. Seems the only qualification these four wimps possess is the ability to lie with a straight face.
Posted 22/03/09 at 3:42 PM EDT

L P from Canada writes: Maybe get a job to become a student driver.
Posted 22/03/09 at 3:43 PM EDT

Squish_a_p From BC from Canada writes: All officer's in all police forces should turn in the 'bullies and misfits' among them. Then perhaps we could respect the good one's instead of tarring them all with the same brush.
Posted 22/03/09 at 3:43 PM EDT

Dennis sinneD from Calgary, Canada writes: I haven't rushed to judge... I watched the video over and over until I became convinced, by my own eyes, that they did the wrong thing.

A man is dead because of these 4 burly cops who didn't take the time to properly judge the situation... I guess one can conclude that they rushed to judge an innocent man... and they killed him.
Posted 22/03/09 at 3:44 PM EDT

Jake Smith from Canada writes: In addition, to charging police for killing unarmed, non-threatening people such as this Polish man, police should be charged with something like obstruction of justice when they contribute to conviction of an innocent person thru acts such as non-disclosure of evidence.

Obviously, James Lockyer is a busy man freeing people who were unjustly convicted when in many cases, police incompetence and/or gross negligence resulted in those convictions!!

THIS IS NOT A POLICE STATE AND MANY PEOPLE SACRIFICED THEIR LIVES TO LIVE IN A FREE SOCIETY!!!

p.s. I wish the Globe would cease the censorship of these comments unless of course they also believe we live in a Police state
Posted 22/03/09 at 3:45 PM EDT

L P from Canada writes: Time to go, have a nice day!
Posted 22/03/09 at 3:45 PM EDT

ronin x from laughing at Sharp, Canada writes: The cops were pathetic.
We saw the tape, that the RC's tried to cover up.
If 4 cops can't subdue a tired guy with a stapler without killing him, they are a danger to the public, and are dangerously unqualified.
Why do clowns like Sharp want these people to remain in our police force?
Posted 22/03/09 at 3:45 PM EDT

Impose a Maximum Wage from Canada writes: I understand that the RCMP face pressures, but part of being a competent law enforcemnt official is to respond appropiately in high pressure situations. If certain officers are unable to do this, perhaps they should consider a different line of work. In BC what seems to happen is when mistakes are made by members of Law Enforcement a Blue Wall of silence is enforced. This Wall allows members of our RCMP to get away with MURDER. They killed Ian Bush. Nothing Happened They killed a man in Vanderhoof. Nothing Happened. They killed a man at YVR. Nothing Happened. And jsut a few days ago they killed a man with a box cutter and allegedly erased a bystanders cell-phone recording of the incident. Nothing will happen. This can all be fixed with a liitle something called civilian oversight. We must police the police.
Posted 22/03/09 at 3:46 PM EDT

Jake Smith from Canada writes: I perceive that Cognitively Cogitative from Urbia, Canada is naive if he/she thinks 'If we've learned anything from this its that the RCMP cannot be trusted to be accountable if there is no video'.

There was a case in York Region where 4 officiers went to an Italian family's home to arrest or talk to the adult son. They killed the father and the dog, and when the SIU investigated somehow all voice recorders on each of the 4 officiers mysteriously failed simultaneously!

As an engineer, I find that is the same odds as earth being destroyed by collision with another planet.
Posted 22/03/09 at 3:48 PM EDT

Andew Willson from Montreal, Canada writes: The police are trained to deal with those types of situations. Of course your average canadian doesn't know what it is like to deal with those types of situations. But that is not an excuse to use excessive force. the police are given tools (in the form of training) to approach situations in a manner that avoids 'unfortunate confrontation.
Posted 22/03/09 at 3:48 PM EDT

G Montcler from Canada writes: If you can't stand the heat, don't stay in the kitchen.
By definition, police officers will face pressure and danger: it used to be that they managed it. Now with the braindead officers that we have (e.g. the witnesses in the Taser enquiry) their only reflex is to shoot!
Until such time as we force the law enforcement hierarchy to hire and train more intelligent people, we'll have the same problems.
Posted 22/03/09 at 3:49 PM EDT

Duane Freemantle from writes: The anger or frustration is due to the circumstances of death Robert Dziekanski. Why doesn't the RCMP chief understand this. Canadians understand the conditions RCMP officers have to work. Canadians have great respect and pride in the RCMP, and William Elliott words are just incentive.
Posted 22/03/09 at 3:50 PM EDT

richard sharp from Gatineau, writes: But the RCMP took corrective measures to limit the use of tasers. Many other police forces haven't done as much.

I'd like to limit a lot of things our police and security agencies do:

1) stopping, sniffing, interrogating and searching us w/o reasonable cause
2) entrapping and inciting us to commit or admit to crimes
3) humiliating us, such as the highly-offensive treatment of Mr. Schreiber in an orange jumpsuit and shackles when called before the parliamentary committee
4) its growing network of anonymous/secret sources, from citizen snitches to secret informants to other nations' police/security forces
5) its unjustified access to corporate and government data banks (on us), just in case

The list of increased powers and authorities (over us) has exploded since 9/11. That darn pendulum is still swinging the wrong way.
Posted 22/03/09 at 3:51 PM EDT

Jake Smith from Canada writes: Why are the police only killing regular 'law-abiding' Canadians, and we never hear of police using excessive force on bikers?

Do the police pee their pants when they deal with bikers, and they grow balls with Joe Public?
Posted 22/03/09 at 3:52 PM EDT

M. MacDonald from Canada writes: Most Canadians understand that there is no justification whatsoever for four armed police officers to feel threatened by a confused man in full view who is holding a stapler. What a way to greet visitors who have just set foot on Canadian soil for the first time. Mr. Elliot is supposed to be straightening out the RCMP, not making excuses for the killing of civilians.
Posted 22/03/09 at 3:52 PM EDT

snowy lander from Edmonton, Canada writes: You socialist wingnuts should give the cops a break. The RCMP's job is fraught with frightening confrontations with office supplies. I remember my first stand off against a stapler wielding mail boy. I peed myself. Thank goodness the guy in the next cubicle had a 3 hole punch and convinced that stapler boy to stand down. i will never forget that day. Now i never go to work without an electric pencil sharpener.
Posted 22/03/09 at 3:53 PM EDT

gary wilson from Calgary, writes: Don't rush to judge officers who used taser, says RCMP chief. You mean like how the RCMP rushed to judge Robert Dziekanski? No, the public is willing to listen, to hear the officers' side of the story, we're even willing to pause to hear the back story and what went into the thinking of that day. It's the RCMP who wouldn't pause to listen to those in the waiting lounge who called out to them that Dziekanski was simply lost. It was the arrogance of the RCMP officers and inablity to properly read a situation that caused the man's death.

I wont rush to judge these men nor will the courts that hear their cases. But hear this, after we've heard all they have to say they sure as hell better get the hammer thrown their way if they are as guilty as they appear so far.
Posted 22/03/09 at 3:53 PM EDT

But In The End from Canada writes: Mike Sharpe et al...

1) If you needed heart surgery, would you feel comfortable being operated on by a surgeon who somehow managed to squeak through medical school etc. with a fear of blood, and/or the hospital hired said surgeon knowing the surgeon's fear?

2) Let us assume that the officers are unquestionably justified in their actions. Why the blatantly obvious lies? In court and under oath no less? Why did they all collectively work together to convey the same lie?

3) Let us assume again that the officers now, did not lie. Given the video, can we now question the psychological states of these officers? Do they all have the same mental disability in their perception of reality? I would find it disturbing that all of the officers who responded to the call would all suffer from the same mental illness as well.

So there you have it.

1) The officers should never have been hired in the first place, so we need far more rigorous methods of screening out the nutjobs.

2) The officers are liars and should be charged for purgery at the very least, and perhaps the entire police force should be investigated...

3) ...by a third party! They should not be allowed to investigate themselves!

4) Officers may need to be screened regularly for psychological impairments.

5) Maybe these guys really are psychologically impaired, and can't perceive reality like the rest of us, or perhaps they were all on freakin' LSD at the time!
Posted 22/03/09 at 3:55 PM EDT

Tony Burson from Toronto, Canada writes: Eliot should be concerned. That three young fit RCMP officers could not subdue a middle aged man, seems to be a lack of training on the part of the Force and nothing other than that. The reflections on the force and Eliot are the outcome of the circumstances.
Posted 22/03/09 at 3:55 PM EDT

A READER from Canada writes: Let's put some context here. It was in a secured area of an AIRPORT! We're not talking about downtown eastside in Vancouver where the 4 officers were responding.

So, it's only appropriate for the 4 officers to rush to judgement about Mr. Dziekanski since they have all that training and experience. Us lowly regular citizens are not allowed to comment on their inappropriate actions.

Mr. Elliot seems to fail to appreciate the how the 4 officers were amazingly able to present evidence that was totally contradictory to the facts on video.

If you want to restore confidence and reputation in the force, weed out the bad apples. Reluctance to let bad officers go and seemingly to transfer them around in the force is not what instills confidence in a police force. You're just shifting your problems around and over time, the whole basket of apples just gets rotten faster.
Posted 22/03/09 at 3:56 PM EDT

Dick Garneau from Canada writes: Most of us were eye witnesses to this regrettable incident.

We also followed the case as the police tried to cover up the truth.

Justice will never be served when an organization lacks morality, integrity and honesty.
Posted 22/03/09 at 3:57 PM EDT

J Birch from Hamilton, Canada writes:
Why does the RCMP continue to lend legitimacy to this ridiculous defence
4 or 5 strapping young officers couldn't physically restrain one 50 year old Pole with a small stapler without electrocuting him several times
This defence simply is not credible to any reasonable person
The RCMP has had several terrible PR disasters over the last few years
Continuing such a ridiculous defence only shreds credibility further of this once great police force
Perhaps it is time to give them the Airborne treatment and break up the force
Ban the taser, and scrap the force - they just don't get it
Shame
Posted 22/03/09 at 3:57 PM EDT

gb lindsay from Calgary, Canada writes: Okay I've thought for a minute...you are idiots who just don't get it. Why can't you just admit you screwed up, apologize, punish the people who screwed up (including all RCMP spokesman who lied through their teeth), do some retraining , change the taser policy and get on with it. People are not saying all RCMP are idiots but when you make a mistake like this, deny reallity for months and months after trying to cover it up it is irrepairably damaging the RCMP image. Posted 22/03/09 at 3:58 PM EDT

w smith from West of Toronto, Canada writes: William Elliot's comments are what we the public expected. This is just like having the police investigate the police, it's not right. Would it be okay if a member of my family investigated me if I had done something wrong? We need a completely independent body to look into the police, if there is an indication that they did something wrong.

Don't misunderstand me. I know the police have a very difficult job to do, and not very many of us would want to do it.
Posted 22/03/09 at 3:58 PM EDT

Paul Harker from Ottawa, Canada writes: It's a pity the Commissioner didn't state this almost the minute that the death took place - it would have made people a lot more sympathetic to the pressures the officers faced.
Posted 22/03/09 at 3:58 PM EDT

scott thomas from Canada writes: I wouldn't rush to judgement if it weren't for the proof of the video contradicting the coordinated lies of the officers.
Posted 22/03/09 at 3:59 PM EDT

Michael Banner from Norway writes: Don't Rush to Judge RCMP? William Elliot should be telling his RCMP employees to may be Don't Rush to Judge people that need to be Tasered.

Only 60% of people polled think a man with a stapler that was tasered to DEATH think it's too much force? Who are these other 40% nutjobs? That Poll can't be right.

The best way to get some confidence back to BAN TASER USE until you can be certain they are absolutely non-lethal! or you hire better RCMP... maybe Human being with some Human Ethics, patience, compassion, intelligence.

William Elliot should resign.
Posted 22/03/09 at 4:01 PM EDT

Peter Cromerovich from Erehwon, Canada writes: Mike Sharp from Victorious: Thank you for the interesting slant on the straw man fallacy. Daily, you condemn yourself with your own words.
Posted 22/03/09 at 4:05 PM EDT

Ward Hargreaves from Bolton, Ont., writes: Of late, my childhood vision of the RCMP is being quickly eroded not only by the Vancouver tasing, but also by people stomping SOS in the snow and being ignored as well as a young, drunken prisoner arrested for being intoxicated - yet summarily shot in the head during a reported jumping of an RCMP officer. What is going on with this force???? Where is the class and quality I've been raised to expect from these people? It's beginning to look like scenes out of the Dukes of Hazzard! And please, don't tell me that 4 strapping men could not subdue a confused and annoyed man with a stapler! Balderdash! Are we producing cops or cop-outs? If you are so meek that 4 cannot take down 1 then we have a problem!!!!!
Posted 22/03/09 at 4:05 PM EDT

L P from Canada writes: You are hired but stop bothering other people.
Posted 22/03/09 at 4:05 PM EDT

cuzzo grande from Trail, BC, Canada writes: I am afraid to go to work in an office with all those deadly staplers there.
Posted 22/03/09 at 4:06 PM EDT

But In The End from Canada writes: Mike Sharp from Victorious, Canada writes: Ahhh... This fellow is closer to getting it. And it's not about blaming the victim. In my view, how does a man spend ten hours in an airport and never seek help? It's irrational. I believe there were extenuating circumstances. Robert was irrational, physically unwell and out of control. Did his compromised health contribute to his death? People are tasered all the time and don't die.

Ipso facto, if people are tasered all the time and don't die then why did Robert die from being tasered?

- So then, in your expert opinion, what caused his death? Was it his fault for not being able to speak english? Was it the fault of the airport staff that failed to notice his predicament for 10 hours? Or was it the officers and their, well, for lack of a more neutral word, 'reaction' to the situation, that led to his death?

It seems clear to me that you have been more than ready to rule out the last option, ever since the news was published actually. You apparently have decided to partly rule out the first option, after your online lynching after you had originally suggested it was the victim's fault for things you suggested, such as fighting back and attacking the officers. (Yes, I remember, and I would love to quote you if I could find the old comment feeds. Perhaps someone can do the honors?).

So your position therefore is that the cause for the victim's death is a combination of his medical conditions, plus the failure of the airport staff to properly serve the victim.
Posted 22/03/09 at 4:08 PM EDT

Koshchei The Deathless from Canada writes: Why shouldn't we judge them? A man is dead.
Posted 22/03/09 at 4:09 PM EDT

smelter rat from Canada writes: When Mr. Elliot was hired he was touted as being THE ONE to reform the RCMP. Looks like same old, same old to me.
Posted 22/03/09 at 4:10 PM EDT

Charles Murray from Toronto, Canada writes: Policing is not that dangerous. If you look up death rate by occupation in the US, police officers aren't even in the top ten! Taxi driving has a far higher fatality rate than policing.

Courage should be a requirement of being a police officer. It is for taxi driving.
Posted 22/03/09 at 4:10 PM EDT

Runaway 08 from Canada writes: Once upon a time, I worked for a living at what many people think is a high stress job. Did the paying customers want to hear about the pressures I was under when I had a bad day? They did not. Could I have gotten away with a 'you-don't-understand' whinge, when my supervisors got wind of it. I could not. Would my supervisors have told the paying customer that (s)he ought to walk a mile in my shoes, bla bla bla? Definitely not!!

Furthermore, I very much resent the tendency these days to refer to murders, rapes, B&Es etc as 'mistakes' or in the case of the murder of Mr. Dziesanski, 'bad things' as if there was no difference between murdering a unarmed and exhausted man and stealing a cookie from Grandma's cookie jar.
Posted 22/03/09 at 4:10 PM EDT

Mike Milne from Canada writes: It's clearly obvious in the video that buddy picked up a chair and THREW it at the window in the direction of someone who was watching his flip-out.
This is threatening behaviour.
This alone allows for him to be subdued.
Before tazers there were batons. Which would you prefer to watch?
(That doesn't excuse the 'apparent' contradiction when RCMP were rendering their version of the events.)
Posted 22/03/09 at 4:11 PM EDT

R OBryan from Canada writes: If the situation the officers came across at the Vancouver airport was a 'pressure situation' as defined by the RCMP.... then they should no longer be a policing force. Any logical person could have calmed that man down given minimum training and patience. How the officers reacted to the situation was pure ego/testosterone driven with the power of a taser! Shame on them!
Posted 22/03/09 at 4:12 PM EDT

daniel saliken from Vancouver, Canada writes: When I was in university on student government we got drafted as bouncers for the evening dance and concert nights. We were backed up by two unarmed campus security guards. We had no weapons, authority of law (which is powerful) or special training to deal with our drunken, stoned peers.

We made it happen safely. We got 6-8 of us as backup and one guy (or gal) went over and first tried to talk it out. Then if $hit went down we had a RUSH plan where we dogpile subdued and police were called.

I think the issue is that anybody with real life experience knows four uniformed, body armour wearing big guys at an international airport with a disoriented tourist have lots of options before tasering repeatedly. Its about judgement.
Posted 22/03/09 at 4:13 PM EDT

John A from Calgary, Canada writes: This is utter c#@p, the officers keep claiming that they feared for their own and each others safety. There were 4 (supposedly) trained police officers against one man armed with a stapler. How can 5 taser hits (much less one) be justified? One of the officers was overheard saying (by witnesses) should I taser him and this occured before thay even spoke with the man. They made no attempt to secure a translator, they outright lied on their initial reports which in my opinion is CYA mode, they interferred with the medical personnel, etc. These officers killed a man based on nothing, as far as I am concerned this is tantamount to murder, certainly not self defence! Immigration is just as much at fault for not securing a translator to help the person out. These men (I use that term loosely) should be fired and charged with at least manslaughter!!!!!!!!!
Posted 22/03/09 at 4:14 PM EDT

A. Nonymous from Market Correction, United States writes: I do long for the days where the RCMP always apprehended their suspect. I also long for the days where sometimes, they brought them back alive to face trial.
Posted 22/03/09 at 4:14 PM EDT

Castigandos Castigamus from calgary, Canada writes: This guy doesn't get it. The fact is that the training of the RCMP and their operating procedures are deficient. The police lie every time one of these incidents occur. In addition we need boards which are independent of the police to investigate these incidents. Anything less than this is unacceptable. William Elliott was brought in to change the culture of the RCMP. It seems that he has been co-opted by it. So much for meaningful change.
Posted 22/03/09 at 4:15 PM EDT

L P from Canada writes: Harper is useless and lies, sorry for the bad English.
Posted 22/03/09 at 4:15 PM EDT

Peter Cromerovich from Erehwon, Canada writes: Richnov * from Vancouver, Canada writes: 'While I am not a Police officer I am a Search and Rescue and Health care worker....'

I seriously hope I am never rescued by the likes of you. You are likely to misinterpret a diabetic episode as an assault and respond accordingly.

Anybody with a shred of observation can see that Dziekanski's posture is a defensive one. The trouble with people like you is that you robotically follow 'standard procedure' and are unable to assess a situation and react to minimise harm.
Posted 22/03/09 at 4:16 PM EDT

Joseph T from Victoria, Canada writes: Mike Sharp is our westcoast version of Mr. Alice Shiv. Mike Sharp lives in the crater hell hole known as Oak Bay where the denizens pop their heads out of their shells to sneer at any non-WASP walking by.
Posted 22/03/09 at 4:18 PM EDT

The Centrist from Canada writes: Funny. The police don't want us to judge them on the same basis they treat others?

The RCMP plants evidence; interferes in elections; convicts criminals in the court of public opinion; and whines that laws aren't tough enough-for non police officers.

The RCMP also had a role in the renedition of individuals who were SUSPECTED of terrorist activity.

Its peachy living in a country with such a high regard for civil rights.
Posted 22/03/09 at 4:18 PM EDT

B D from Surrey, Canada writes: As if multiple Taser shots weren't good enough, the tape shows one of the thugs leaning on Dziekanski's throat.

We all saw the tape (after the RCMP tried to suppress it). We have all been sickened by testimony at Braidwood.

If the RCMP and the justice system now lack credibility it is because prosecutors failed to bring criminal charges, and have been tacitly complicit in soft-pedaling, along with the RCMP, this horrific incident and despicable example of inept police work.

Don't judge? Don't make me laugh!
Posted 22/03/09 at 4:20 PM EDT

Tom Smith from Canada writes: Mr. Elliot, it is improper in my view that you make any statements whatsoever while a public inquiry is underway. Any judgments by the public are irrelevant. Judgments by the inquiry is another matter.

By making statements such as this, it sure seems as though you as Commissioner are attempting to influence public opinion and possibly the outcome of a public inquiry.
Posted 22/03/09 at 4:21 PM EDT

siren call from Canada writes: 3 years of Harper's tough on crime legislation. More cops on the streets. Are we safer? Seems to me the cops have adopted a gang mentality and are swarming. And Harper's little gagged and bound politicians will not rein in those under their command.
Posted 22/03/09 at 4:21 PM EDT

little bowpeep from Give me a break, Canada writes: think there is a requirement do a sober sound examination of the facts or the circumstances and I think the expression 'walk a mile in my shoes' comes to mind. //////////////////////////////////////////////////// After careful consideration, Mr. Elliot, I think you should be fired!
Posted 22/03/09 at 4:21 PM EDT

born a cynic from Canada writes: Mike Sharp from Victorious, Canada writes: Doctor Beaker from Black Rock, Saint Lucia writes: Spin it any way you want, but if these 4 officers performed appropriate to their role, then Dziekanski was destined to die no matter which 4 RCMP officers responded to the call.
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Ahhh... This fellow is closer to getting it.

Does that mean that Mike is forever destined to write idiotic posts?
God help us all
Posted 22/03/09 at 4:21 PM EDT

gregorj 58 from Fonthill, Canada writes: If the police were justified in their actions, why not charge them and have a trial? That way they would have the same chance as any other would be criminal. The typical criminal is innocent until proven guilty, but these guys aren't even up for judgement. But of course they won't do that, as they don't present a credible case for their treatment of Dziekanski. They should be judged in the same way as the ones that they charge.The RCMP will have to go along way before the public forgets all of this. Maybe they should hire the same advisors as Maple Leaf Foods. Their current defense just isn't working!
Posted 22/03/09 at 4:22 PM EDT

VOCM Listener from Toronto, Canada writes: Mike Milne from Canada writes: That doesn't excuse the 'apparent' contradiction when RCMP were rendering their version of the events.)

'Apparent' contradiction? ............ is that you new expression for plain old fashion lying?

If they were comfortable with their actions i.e. being threathened? why did they do this 'apparent' contradiction?
Posted 22/03/09 at 4:23 PM EDT

Joseph T from Victoria, Canada writes: Obviously, our illustratious commissioner is in a great position of importance to pontificate on such things. He has a great role model to follow, but let's not Harper on it, eh?
Posted 22/03/09 at 4:24 PM EDT

Don Portz from Trochu AB, Canada writes: Quite frankly, I do not feel sorry for anyone that resists arrest from a duly constituted police force. That individual has in my opinion left himself open to whatever happens. If in this instance, he would not have been tasered or harmed in anyway if he had cooperated. That goes for all the above posters who decry the police. I want our streets safe from ALL law breakers.
Posted 22/03/09 at 4:24 PM EDT

Jesse Winger from Calgary Speaks for Common Sense, Canada writes: 'William Elliott says the angry outcry that followed the tasering of Robert Dziekanski comes from people who don't understand the pressures faced by his officers'

Fire William Elliot! What a sad excuse for the brutal behaviour of these four officers. What left is there to understand? Not one apology, not one sign of remorse for this senseless killing...
Posted 22/03/09 at 4:24 PM EDT

Bob Karaim from Toronto, Canada writes: Come on, the police judge people every single day as soon as they write their incident report in the data base. Their bias are entered and the people are judged, no trial, no court, nothing, nada !!!!!!!!!
Try and see if you can have it changed, removed whatever noooooo
way. The worst is Metro Toronto they think their GOD. Judge them??
HaHahhhhh.
Posted 22/03/09 at 4:25 PM EDT

Crusty Curmudgeon from Ottawa, Canada writes: Perhaps the officiers should not have rushed to judge Robert Dziekanski????
Posted 22/03/09 at 4:25 PM EDT

Andy * from Canada writes: If memory serves the 'members' only had a few minutes (3-4) to clean this up before the next flight was due. It would have been unseemly to have a 'citizen' from a foreign country laying there. So the rush judgement was to taser him and get him the heck out there. To bad he died twenty to thirty seconds later, kind of screwed up the time table. Well I'm sure we'll get this all cleared up this week when we get the full Monty version of events. Surely, he will have had the time to review the video.
Posted 22/03/09 at 4:25 PM EDT

D McTavish from United Kingdom writes: Don't rush to judge the officers? These officers rushed in their judgment and used excessive force in a situation that posed little risk to any public bystanders or the officers themselves; but at great risk to Mr. Dziekanski. He died because the RCMP officers rushed. These officers have to be held accountable because what they did was wrong and it killed an innocent man who needed help. All present and future officers need to be re-trained so that they do not rush to judge others in similar situations in the future because lives, which they've sworn to protect, are in jeopardy.
Posted 22/03/09 at 4:26 PM EDT

Roy White from Canada writes: Squish_a_p From BC from Canada writes: All officer's in all police forces should turn in the 'bullies and misfits' among them. Then perhaps we could respect the good one's instead of tarring them all with the same brush.
-----------------------------------------------------------------------
I have a hard time believing all 4 RCMP officers are 'bullies and misfits'. If proper training and use of tasers or any kind of force is not in place then incidence like this will continue. The RCMP have to go back and look at policies as to when to use a taser or if taser should be used at all. I believe lack of training and lack of judgement on the part of these RCMP officers is to blame. Part of the training has to be the ability to judge the state of mind and mental heath of the person. There seems to be a lack of training or lack of qualified officers who can access the mental health of a person before they approached Mr. Dziekanski. The Vancouver Airport is more to blame than these officers, if they had staff monitoring the airport terminals this whole incident would not of happened. When someone in Mr. Dziekanski state of mind can wander a secure area for as long as he did without being noticed for hours there in my mind is a major problem at Vancouver airport.
Posted 22/03/09 at 4:26 PM EDT

Paul Murphy from Canada writes: Jumping? Who's jumping? Four combat trained, armed (pistol, spray, baton, body-armoured) burly RCMP officers; one middle-aged, hungry, not drunk or drugged, out-of-shape guy who was not armed with any firearm as he was still inside the security area. They zapped him 5, yes 5, times! There are lots of good RCMP officers; however, 70% of the officers now have less than 5 years experience, their pension plan administration and assigning officers who are 'maintaining the right' to other areas or areas with less responsibility to punish and silence them, $8000 riding boots, a still visible and vocal liability at INTERPOL. Yes, my confidence in the Force has dropped and it will take more than comments from Kandahar by an old Billy Elliott to dance them back into the confidence of most Canadians.
Posted 22/03/09 at 4:27 PM EDT

Anthony B from Maritimes, Canada writes: Jake Smith from Canada writes: Why are the police only killing regular 'law-abiding' Canadians, and we never hear of police using excessive force on bikers?'

Exactly. And now I understand why BC has an out-of-control gang problem. If one unarmed man is too much 'pressure,' organized criminals must be too emotionally distressing to contemplate. Where do you suppose they hide when the bad guys come around?
Posted 22/03/09 at 4:28 PM EDT

Blue Horseshoe from Toronto, Canada writes: Walk a mile in your shoes? William Elliot and Kwesi Millington are NOT the victims here.
Posted 22/03/09 at 4:28 PM EDT

Helmut Becker from Lobo, Canada writes: Grow up! Just because the word Gun Stapler contains the word gun let us not equate this as a lethal weapon when faced with a battle ready contingent of RCMP bearing a barrage of lethal weapons including lethal tasers. The manufacturer's claims that laser guns are safe and have never killed anyone is wrong, not based on scientific fact and extremely misleading. Back to the drawing board profiteering laser gun corporates and get independent professional scientists to exhaustively precision test all future potentially lethal weaponry. Go back to basic training you 'gang of RCMP bullies'. Get your facts straight about human psychology. Learn about the follies of mass psychology of fascism, army fascism and brutality. Canada must never succumb to the tactics of a brutal police state. Cold blooded power corrupts, just exactly what the video tape conclusively witnessed. Police who are incapable of compassionate rational behavior should seek employment in some other sector of society where their irresponsible actions will not hurt or kill innocent people.
Robert Dziekanski never ever posed a life threatening situation.
Posted 22/03/09 at 4:31 PM EDT

Jeff Pritchard from Canada writes: To the RCMP chief's comment I say:
Don't be so quick to judge people who are standing there with a stapler in their hand.

The consequences of us judging the police are increased oversight. The consequences of the police judging us are that innocent people die needlessly. Therefore, the RCMP chief can go to hell!
Posted 22/03/09 at 4:31 PM EDT

Comments closed, censored, hidden, deleted, disappeared from Mini Bush-Obamatieff village, Canada writes: Problem is they (all the way up the organization) will not accept to be judged by anybody but their own, i.e. by people with as bad a judgement... as their own. That incestuous demand of theirs is both unreasonable and irresponsible. -- What they forget is that WE, citizens, are the sovereign. It is for US to judge. --- Aa for them, who are THEY? They are our employees and servants. WE are the ones who pay their salaries, social benefits, etc., the whole lot. --- Policing is too important, in a society, to be left to the police to judge. It is for the SOVEREIGN to judge, and we are IT. Therefore WE ought and need to judge... and very severely whenever appropriate. They all they have to do is mend their ways... and shut up.
Posted 22/03/09 at 4:32 PM EDT

Gordon Stewart from Victoria, B.C., Canada writes: Maybe William Elliott should walk in innocent citizen's shoes for a while.

I agree with taser use in some situations, but tasers should never relpace common sense and proper communications!

More training for police. Train police on how to approach citizens without engaging them. Some police may have issues which may affect their work.

Integrity testing for police is a must, but police like Vancouver Union pres. Tom Stamatikis told CBC years ago 'it's a non-starter'. Why?

Set up scenarios to see how officers arrive and diffuse situations, it may prove to be enlightening for Elliott, to stand by and watch!
Posted 22/03/09 at 4:32 PM EDT

Mister Canada from Canada writes: The bigger issue here is that Cstble Swiilington couldn't even remember his story 10 mins after the incident occurred, while taking his 'notes'. How can we, the public, trust these folks when they cant remember what ACTUALLY transpired? He obviously is in the wrong profession, or there is a major cover up here....He is the one who wrote his notes, and he is the one who was proven to be wrong in court about his details......he should be fired for incompetence, and charged in the death of this man.
Posted 22/03/09 at 4:33 PM EDT

S Lucht from Canada writes: But In The End: Don't expect Mike Sharp to answer the difficult questions, eg 'Why did Mr Dziekanski die?' 'Why did the RCMP not tell the truth about the incident?' 'Why did an unarmed woman try to speak with Mr Dziekanski but the RCMP didn't?'
.
Mike Sharp doesn't want to know the answers to these questions. He loves his men in uniform and that's all that matters--he'll defend them with all the trolling and sassing at his disposal.
Posted 22/03/09 at 4:34 PM EDT

The Centrist from Canada writes: Once the videotape which the RCMP tried to supress was presented, the RCMP were shown to be have misspoken and thats being generous.
And to have someone who is head of this organization defend these 'misspeaks' is absolutely disgraceful.
The RCMP should be shut down and replaced-and the head of it should be fired.
Posted 22/03/09 at 4:34 PM EDT

Scott N from Canada writes: While I certainly don't justify the RCMP's actions in this case, to lay the blame for the death in this case solely on their shoulders is unfair. What YVR and CBSA did in each failing to do their jobs in this case certainly also contributed to this man's death. The failing of the RCMP, however, included how they dealt with their clearly disproportionate response after it occurred. Charges need to be laid. And if Mr. Elliott is correct, the officers will be acquitted. And then our confidence in the RCMP will be repaired, somewhat.
Posted 22/03/09 at 4:36 PM EDT

Craig Gray from Georgetown, Canada writes: William Elliott you are now the new chief of spin doctor. You want us to believe that 1 man armed with a paper stapler required 3-4 RCMP officers to hold him down while you zapped him to death. What next, a paper cut to justify a shot in the head with a semi automatic rifle.
Posted 22/03/09 at 4:36 PM EDT

siren call from Canada writes: Some things about Elliot being in Afghanistan are interesting.

1) He's there because our supposedly superior police force are training Afghan police. One might think; Allah help the poor Afghans.
2) Funny that when Harper first came to power, Kandahar was far too dangerous for the CIC, the Governor General to visit. Far too dangerous for the Senate committee on the military to visit. WAY too dangerous for opposition politicians -- yet the Harper boys have a direct connect flight to Aftghanistan for propaganda purposes.
3) Hilarious to see Harper politicize war. Just freakin' hilarious.
Posted 22/03/09 at 4:37 PM EDT

John S from Canada writes: RCMP is yet another bloated corrupt government run organization, all too willing to protect each other and hide their incompetence. Get rid of the whole lot and replace with municipal/provincial police.
Posted 22/03/09 at 4:37 PM EDT

jeff franklin from Canada writes: Violent and or Drunken RCMP Members have killed, maimed and or injured many more Canadians than Cannabis ever has
Posted 22/03/09 at 4:38 PM EDT

Addie Bundren from Canada writes: Reassuring message: if police officers kill innocent people, it's because they have a tough job; feel bad for them. A better way to boost morale and buy loyalty from your members would be to say something like we make mistakes and will try to do better.
Posted 22/03/09 at 4:39 PM EDT

Gotta be serious from Vancouver, Canada writes: Welcome the Troll named Mike Sharp~! The biggest G&M Troll of them all!
Posted 22/03/09 at 4:41 PM EDT

Robert von from Calgary, writes: That's their job Mr. Commissioner. They were not forced to sign up for the RCMP they chose the job. The video and the testimony from the officers speak for themselves. My trust for the RCMP has fallen over the years from pride to just about wanting the federal government to hand over control of the RCMP to provincial forces.
Posted 22/03/09 at 4:41 PM EDT

Tom Smith from Canada writes: gregorj 58 from Fonthill, Canada writes: If the police were justified in their actions, why not charge them and have a trial? ...
======================
I think your comment is quite good. I think that it is entirely possible, especially given some of the questionable evidence and testimony at this time, that the Attorney General of BC may order a criminal investigation of the actions and inactions of those RCMP officers involved.

I think the RCMP knew this as a possiblity and have distanced themselves from the conduct of those officers. If a criminal investigation is ordered, the optics with the RCMP investigation will look terrible, unless it can be shown these officers misled the investigators.

Mr. Elliot's statements make no sense. A public inquiry is currently underway. What happens if the inquiry concludes that those RCMP officers misled the RCMP investigators? What if the inquiry concludes a criminal investigation is warranted? Is Mr. Elliot, a political appointee of Mr. Harper, setting the stage for a confrontation between the Commission of Inquiry and the Province of BC against the Harper government (hiding behind the name of the RCMP)?

Mr. Elliot should immediately resign. Also the RCMP should call for his resignation immediately. Mr. Elliot has crossed a line and attempted to interefere with the conduct of a Commission of Inquiry.
Posted 22/03/09 at 4:41 PM EDT

L P from Canada writes: Society needs RCMP officers. See you all.
Posted 22/03/09 at 4:42 PM EDT

J Mossat from vancouver, Canada writes: The RCMP Chief's comments prove that nothing was learned at the top by this incident. How pathetic, and how sad. It also sends a message to everyone beneath him that failure to handle pressure is an excuse for unprofessionalism. He should be raising standards, not lowering them.

I have two family members who are or were member of Canadian police forces, so spare me, Chief, about not understanding the pressures your profession is under.
Posted 22/03/09 at 4:43 PM EDT

Angry West Coast Canuck from Canada writes: Only fascists would expect that we never question the actions of individual police officers, because only fascists think an unaccountable police force is a good thing.

Based on the video that the RCMP desperately tried to suppress, I'd say they acted incredibly poorly IN THIS CASE. Not only that, they outright LIED in their depositions and reports, and were only caught out because of the video. Doesn't mean that the RCMP doesn't act appropriately elsewhere, but in THIS case, these yahoos need to be slapped down. They won't be, which means that the police force as a whole will rightfully lose a lot of credibility. It's unfortunate that the police force is more willing to lose the public's confidence than they are willing to clean up their own ranks.

These officers were the ones who reacted inappropriately and killed a sick and distraught individual. To try to lay the blame for that on anyone else is the sign of a desperate defence. Yes, the airport authority and the customs agents bear responsibility for treating this person worse than anyone should be treated, but they aren't the ones who killed him.
Posted 22/03/09 at 4:45 PM EDT

Hmmmer ? from Canada writes: NO! He was tased because he had the 'perceived arrogance' to walk away from four 'demi' gods.
No one could ever reasonably conclude that he was a viable threat to those four armored, armed, supposedly trained cops.
He died as a result of their interaction with him either the taser killed him or their 'excessive force' killed him.
Hmmmer. Things that make ya go, hmmm?
Posted 22/03/09 at 4:47 PM EDT

The Centrist from Canada writes: The RCMP PAID for two published critiques of the INSITE project.
What does this have to do with policing?
Taxpayer money wasted and stolen to pay for political purposes.
The RCMP should be shut down and replaced.
Posted 22/03/09 at 4:48 PM EDT

Disgusted Canadian from Canada writes: The taser is only as safe as the person being aprehended, cooperates. That's all that is necessary, it's that simple. This is a good deterrant for the beligerent. I sympathize with the law enforcement staff when they have to deal with a roudy bunch of inhibriates or spun out of their tree on drugs. I think it's fair to say that the law enforcers should use what ever force necessary to have control. Adrunk or a druggie isn't very easy to control when in a beligerent state
Posted 22/03/09 at 4:50 PM EDT

siren call from Canada writes: L P from Canada writes: Society needs RCMP officers. See you all.
....................
Although on the face of it, your comment make sense, I disagree.
Society needs competent police officers.
And a means, political or judicial, to keep them in line.
We no longer have either with respect to the RCMP.
Posted 22/03/09 at 4:52 PM EDT

martha stewart from Canada writes: If the RCMP does not fire these goons they will prove that they are just as corrupt and cowardly as we are starting to think they are.

Its that simple.

In the meantime, please don't rush to judgement on Bernie Madoff. Let his family review his record and let them decide.
Posted 22/03/09 at 4:53 PM EDT

J Birch from Hamilton, Canada writes: Reminds me of the behaviour of Alex & the Droogs in Clockwork Orange
Anybody up for some Miloko Plus
Just singin in the rain ....
Posted 22/03/09 at 4:53 PM EDT

Simon Leonard from Vancouver, writes: Don't rush to judge? Why? It seems to me that those who rushed to judge were the officers themselves..
Posted 22/03/09 at 4:59 PM EDT

jennys dad from owen sound, Canada writes: No, Mr Elliott - WE get it - YOU don't.

Let alone these neanderthals killed the poor guy, the worst part is the obvious lying and coverup afterwards. These cowards don't even have the guts to say they were wrong and that they are sorry. Let alone a disgrace to the RCMP, they are a disgrace to humanity.

Flood this Elliott guy with emails !
Posted 22/03/09 at 5:04 PM EDT

BL Florida from Canada writes: It's time police and the military realize that they are on the job to possibly get hurt or get killed - that is the job risk. So when there are 4 of you against one, then somebody tackle him and then the others jump on - if first officer gets stapled - that's what it is.

Same in military, if you take a bullet when deployed, then that's what it is. I trust they realize they didn't sign up for day camp in Petawawa.

To avoid these risk, perhaps officers should resign and become accountants.
Posted 22/03/09 at 5:02 PM EDT

F H from Ottawa, Canada writes: The 'outcry' is over officers being so incompetent that five so-called officers of the law can't handle a single man without murdering him.
Posted 22/03/09 at 5:04 PM EDT

Robert Dryburgh from Winnipeg, Manitoba, Canada writes: I agree with William Elliott. It's easy to criticise from armchairs. There really is another side that must be considered.
Posted 22/03/09 at 5:05 PM EDT

Bad Bob from Canada writes: We must be fair to the RCMP. Remember that they were under possible attack by a man with a stapler. Is that not one of the most dangerous positions that they could be in?
Sorry Mr. Elliot but you and your RCMP are idiots.
Posted 22/03/09 at 5:06 PM EDT

siren call from Canada writes: I meant to type; a means political and judicial to keep officers in line.

The fact that Harper altered how judges are hired indicates he has no interest in accountability.

Where police officers have tried to monitor themselves, as in the case of whistleblowers, there is not near enough protection for the whistle blower.
Posted 22/03/09 at 5:07 PM EDT

Rae Farrell from Canada writes: Just keep your head down and keep walking.
and what ever you do don't make eye contact.
Posted 22/03/09 at 5:09 PM EDT

richard sharp from Gatineau, writes: Charles Murray from Toronto, Canada writes: Policing is not that dangerous. If you look up death rate by occupation in the US, police officers aren't even in the top ten! Taxi driving has a far higher fatality rate than policing.
_______________
Exactly. So does garbage collection.
Posted 22/03/09 at 5:10 PM EDT

don willer from Vancouver, Canada writes: 5 RCMP against 1 overweight scared Pole, really scary.
Posted 22/03/09 at 5:11 PM EDT

Ryan Lemay from Canada writes: Problem is the police forces today have a hard-on for control freaks in the force. Canada is a multicultural democratic society with diverse cultures and values, control freak officers faced with these facts everyday tend to view these differences as threats and (mistakenly) believe that they can control every scenario against themselves on a daily basis. Having an inability to control these events leads these dysfunctional individuals to lash out and pick targets to 'bully' and berate in the hope of feeling better and understanding the communities psychology better. Too bad these methods are destructive and lead to a greater mistrust and alienation from the community they are suppose to protect. There needs to be a reset of police forcing in this country first starting with the fact that American militarized Rambo heroics causes more harm than good.
Posted 22/03/09 at 5:12 PM EDT

siren call from Canada writes: Rae Farrell from Canada writes: Just keep your head down and keep walking.
and what ever you do don't make eye contact.
...............................
Oh, man, that's sure way to get jumped and beaten by off duty officers.

Ask the darker than white, 50 guy delivering papers in Vancouver.
Posted 22/03/09 at 5:13 PM EDT

jack sprat from Canada writes: Cry me a river buddy. Is RCMP trianin so inadequate that they are not prepared to do THEIR JOBS????

This guy was armed with a stapler and was outnumbered 4 or 5 to one. He had also been through airport security meaning he had no weopons either. These guys were out of line and should be charged with manslaughter. Pressure or not, this is one case where they faced very little danger.

far too often we have power hungry law enforcement who like nothing better than to use their toys.
Posted 22/03/09 at 5:15 PM EDT

Andre Carrel from Terrace, Canada writes: None of this would be an issue today had it not been for the video. I would like to see some RCMP statistics on the deployment of guns and tasers and compare these statistics to use of the gun prior to the taser era.
Whichever way statisticians figure these things out, I would like to see stats of how the use of force by police, from a gun aimed at your kneecap to a flashlight smacked against your left ear, has changed since tasers appeared on the scene.
Posted 22/03/09 at 5:16 PM EDT

walker sailor from Ottawa, Canada writes: Elliot's comments are both outrageous and an inappropriate civil servant response. RESIGN!

I watched that video of Dziekanski in the airport and that was a prime example of a police state practicing push button enforcement.
Posted 22/03/09 at 5:16 PM EDT

norm graham from Regina, Canada writes: Much has been said about how quickly things happen and that is why police have to also react immediately. In this instance the police were the ones who made things happen quickly and are responsible for the outcome. Hearing the constable on the video asking if he can tazer the man even before they have fully entered the room is totally irresponsible and proves no evaluation was done. Where was Dziekanski going, who was he going to harm, nowhere and no one. We often hear about the training that police receive in order to address issues such as this and we often hear about how the police never lie. These were put to the test in this case and they failed on all counts. I have as much respect for the police as anyone but this occurance is inexcusable.
Posted 22/03/09 at 5:17 PM EDT

Tor Hill Sask. from Canada writes: I honestly thought police officers were receiving better training. Too many of them must snicker their way through their sociology and psychology courses. I wonder what William Elliot's position is concerning the potential cut in funding for the RCMP watchdog? I think his pronouncement about the stress the Vancouver officers faced and about the way in which the video somehow doesn't capture their fear gives us an idea about his position on that potential funding cut.
Posted 22/03/09 at 5:18 PM EDT

Steve Gibbons from Calgary, Canada writes: Pressure?
What a load of crap. If you can't handle the pressure quit. These officers are paid very well to uphold peace not shock a man to death. Is there a lack of training, could they not properly understand the situation? Well if that's the case than that would be the responsibility of Elliot. Step up and be a leader not an excuse maker.
Posted 22/03/09 at 5:18 PM EDT

F H from Ottawa, Canada writes: Joseph Bloggins says: An empty vessel makes the most noise.
Well, that certainly explains why he's such a prolific writer on these forums, lol!
Posted 22/03/09 at 5:18 PM EDT

drunk wookie from Canada writes: oakland
Posted 22/03/09 at 5:19 PM EDT

Disgusted Canadian from Canada writes: Somebody has to enforce the laws as today's society doesn't want laws until something adverse affects them, directly, then listen to the howling
Posted 22/03/09 at 5:20 PM EDT

Central Ontario from Canada writes: How can this commissioner, the first ever appointed who is not an experienced police officer comment like that?
The video of Dziekanski at the airport explains it all.
Posted 22/03/09 at 5:22 PM EDT

richard sharp from Gatineau, writes: Ryan Lemay from Canada writes: Problem is the police forces today have a hard-on for control freaks..... Right on.

To reset this debate, we're talking about police power and accountability. Since 9/11, ordinary citizens have been subjected to:

1) more stopping, sniffing, interrogating and searching us w/o reasonable cause
2) more entrapping and inciting us to commit or admit to crimes
3) more humiliation at their hands, such as the highly-offensive treatment of Mr. Schreiber in an orange jumpsuit and shackles when called before the parliamentary committee, disclosure of charges with lawn signs, police website postings of Johns, etc.
4) its growing network of anonymous/secret sources, from citizen snitches to secret informants to other nations' police/security forces
5) its unjustified access to corporate and government data banks (on us), just in case

The list of increased powers and authorities (over us) has exploded since 9/11. Feel free to add to it. That darn pendulum is still swinging the wrong way.
Posted 22/03/09 at 5:22 PM EDT

Ev Miller from Toronto, Canada writes: I rather agree with J. Mossat - the RCMP Commissioner's statement is not very encouraging. Mr. Dieziekanski's death was needless and I think we the public just need to know that real efforts are being made to avoid such failures in the future - and not told to shut up and not be concerned about matters we don't know anything about. We gave up a large part of our right to defend ourselves and handed it over to the police - they are (generally) the only one's with the authority to carry weapons and use force. In return, I think we can demand that they do so not only competently but to a much higher standard than your average person would. And there were clear failures here, possibly on the part of the individual police officers, but definitely on the part of RCMP. I mean really - the officer didn't know the taser had made contact with the body? Officers should not be able to make mistakes like that - that looks to me like inadequate training. Also, the policy about the kinds of circumstances in which a taser can be used definitely needs to be changed to reflect the fact that they do have the capacity to kill people. Finally, the airport needs to look at their practices as well - I'd think they should notice if someone is wandering around for hours on end as a matter of general security. Unfortunately, it seems like even little changes don't get made unless the public starts demanding someone's head...
Posted 22/03/09 at 5:23 PM EDT

Ghetto Dude from Vaughan, Canada writes: I see sir, tasers are saving lives whereas staplers are lethal. What else would we expect from the police department of a gang town? The police and the criminals of Vancouver are 'brothers in arms'.
Posted 22/03/09 at 5:24 PM EDT

James Young from Brantford, Canada writes: This William Elliott person should get a new job. Probably a security guard at Walmart would be suitable.

Thew Dzeikanski tape speaks for itself.

Just imagine the gobble dee goop that would have come out of the RCMP without the tape!

Murder it was and murder it is.

Durgan.
Posted 22/03/09 at 5:29 PM EDT

Ghetto Dude from Vaughan, Canada writes: I suggest those 4 taser heroes receive bonuses. If the US is doing something, we must adapt it.
Posted 22/03/09 at 5:29 PM EDT

geraldine veleti from MILAN, Italy writes: As a Canadian living abroad, i would like to say how this incident is being looked at over here in europe. It is making our country look like A POLICE STATE. THINGS OF THIS NATURE SHOULD NOT HAPPEN IN A CIVILIZED, DEMOCRATIC COUNTRY SUCH AS CANADA. How can our government and the canadian people allow these things to go on and on and on. THE RCMP IS DENYING THAT A MAN DIED BECAUSE OF EXCESSIVE USE OF THE TASER. Ok, let's give them the benefit of the doubt and say that use of the taser was necessary - OH MY GOD THEY WERE THREATENED WITH A STAPLER - was it necessary to tase the poor man to death by tasering him 4-5- times.
This incident is also giving Canada a reputation of a corrupt country, with a corrupt RCMP. They tried to COVER THIS UP. And they would have succeeded had it not been for the video taken by some tourist. THEY ARE LYING THROUGH THEIR TEETH AND I HOPE THEY DO NOT GET AWAY WITH IT. I USED TO BE PROUD of our RCMP but no longer, and no amount of excuses from them will convince me or most europens that they are telling the truth, and that there isn't a coverup and last that this was necessary. THE POLICE AND THE RCMP ARE USING TOO MUCH FORCE. WAKE UP CANADIANS. DON'T STAND UP FOR THIS. Had this happened in any europen country - except for the worst period of comunist dictatorships - people would be out protesting over this type of action by their police force. BUT I GUESS IN CANADA IF PEOPLE PROTESTED THEY WOULD BE CONSIDERED THREATENING AND BE TASERED BY THE RCMP????????
Posted 22/03/09 at 5:30 PM EDT

Thomas Price from Whitefish, Canada writes: What a crock. The police should try working as a miner, an oil rig worker, a smelter worker, an ocean fisherman, a logger, etc. etc. if they want to experience facing danger every day of their working lives. None of these trades are allowed to lose control simply because their lives are in a state of constant endangerment and the police can't be allowed to either. If they are not up to the job I know a lot of miners, fishermen, loggers, etc. right now who will gladly take their place.
Posted 22/03/09 at 5:31 PM EDT

Tor Hill Sask. from Canada writes: We just learned today about how real criminals can do real damage with normally non-lethal objects found around an airport. Our police spokespeople normally need to apply just a bit of spin to get the public to buy into their explanations for incidents like the Dziekanski one. It's generally quite easy to do. This one, and at least one other (Ian Bush affair) require an exaggerated amount of extra spin.
Posted 22/03/09 at 5:31 PM EDT

PROUDCANADIAN2008 B from RCMP taser squad kills another, Canada writes: Robert D was tasered to death in 2007.
From Wilkpedia
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Scandalssurroundingthe_RCMP

In October 2008, an off-duty RCMP officer who was one of the four officers involved in the Robert DziekaDski Taser incident, drove while intoxicated and collided with motorcyclist Orion Hutchinson, who died from the incident. Delta Police detained the suspect and conducted a breathalyser test, which he failed. He was released under the condition to appear at Surrey Provincial Court on Jan 19, 2009, when the Crown may charge him with driving while intoxicated (DWI). Police refused to release the name of the officer, saying the investigation is still ongoing.[26]
Posted 22/03/09 at 5:31 PM EDT

L.B. MURRAY from !! from Canada writes: Some of you should try the following exercise:
FLY to some country and land at some airport where you don't know the language, wait for your mom or sister to meet you for hours and hours, and go through all the snafus and after a few hours, get impatient, start yelling, brandish a stapler, and then get tazered and jumped on by 4 burly policemen, let's say some country ending in .....STAN, formerly part of the Soviet Union.

How would you like to receive that treatment?? This happened in CANADA... and this man who couldn't speak English, was trying to meet his mother at the airport...

He was tazered NOT ONCE, but SEVERAL times... Those who approve had better hope and pray that they never get stranded anywhere in a strange airport where they do not speak the language...

THINK.
Posted 22/03/09 at 5:32 PM EDT

Ev Miller from Toronto, Canada writes: Also - who else finds it funny that the Globe has this story taking place in Kandahar Afghanistan? I know we've been sending the RCMP over there to help train their police force...
Posted 22/03/09 at 5:33 PM EDT

Paul Still from Regina, Canada writes: OK ,that is enough of this crap! I had been giving this man the benefit of the doubt and I would have continued in that line had he not opened his mouth. I had (mistakenly it seems) believed that the problems with the boys was that there were a few juveniles who will strut their stuff as they will. I now see they are also led by another of that kind. Of course cops are under pressure, that is why thet are drawn to that job. They are adrenalin junkies. They need to be lead by people who can moderate those instincts to the benefit of our society and now by this mans words they have carte blache to deal with us as they please, adrenaline and all. A real law enforcement officer must be trained to be confident in the power, skills and responsibilities they have. They must know that they always have the upper hand. This will ensure that they are NOT frightened of a stapler. The very idea that members with the power they have were so easily stampeded by an unarmed man surrounded by big burly cops is revolting. Then to have that backed up by the boss who says, 'Oh, but wait it's more complicated than you realise' Well if this level of complexity is too much for him then he too is wrong for the job. The one thing they guarantee with this is that I will stay as far away from the RCMP as I can get and my trust is ZERO!!
Posted 22/03/09 at 5:34 PM EDT

L P from Canada writes: Can we use the same taser by the same officer, please don't make mountains out of molehills.
Posted 22/03/09 at 5:36 PM EDT

C C from Canada writes: You killed a man in front of our eyes, we are not rushing anywhere. We are sickened and dismayed.
Posted 22/03/09 at 5:37 PM EDT

Ken Cowan from Paris, France writes: William Elliot is insulting the entire Canadian public with such statements... he is taking us - not to mention the justice system - as fools. 'Rush to judgement'? After hearing the lies of the RCMP and then seeing them completely disproved by the video, it is not a question of 'rushing to judgement'...it is more a question of having to put up with such behaviour from the very people - like Eliot - who should be guaranteeing that these men do NOT get away with their incompetence.

Unfortunately, they will. Hell, if anyone were doing his job correctly, they would already be off the force and charged officially with manslaughter.

AN INDEPENDENT ENQUIRY BOARD MONITORING ALL RCMP OUTRAGES IS OBVIOUSLY AND ABSOLUTELY NECESSARY!!!

Too bad we can't trust the RCMP to do the right thing themselves.
Posted 22/03/09 at 5:37 PM EDT

Roy White from Canada writes: harry carnie from Northern B.C., Canada writes: Mike Sharp ............... you mentioned Immigration.
Good point.
WHY was this individual ALLOWED'landed immigrant' status?
I could understand a limited, visitors, visa.

Besides having been jailed in Poland ,for admittedly minor offenses(drinking)
This individual was obviously a bit below normal. ANY ONE who would wander around for hours without GETTING HELP, is questionable.

It is possible those officials in charge of immigration are on the same I.Q level as many of the posters here, and merely support their peers?
--------------------------------------------------------------------------
Your are no better than those four RCMP officers, you judge Mr. Dziekanski without knowing Mr. Dziekanski. This is a prime example of how people judge other people without knowing the first thing about them. Mr. Dziekanski is a human being that should of been treated as such, the RCMP and Vancouver International failed at that and we as a country must find a way to make sure another incidence like this never happens again.
Posted 22/03/09 at 5:39 PM EDT

Bad Bob from Canada writes: Ev Miller from Toronto, Canada writes: Also - who else finds it funny that the Globe has this story taking place in Kandahar Afghanistan? I know we've been sending the RCMP over there to help train their police force...
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
I wonder how they are training them. Perhaps put a large box full of staplers somewhere that the bad guys would find them. Wait for a while until they have all been taken and then taser everyone that they find that has one.
Posted 22/03/09 at 5:39 PM EDT

L P from Canada writes: I will give you $100000 if you find anything!
Posted 22/03/09 at 5:42 PM EDT

Ghetto Dude from Vaughan, Canada writes: Murdering is one thing, officially saying 'murdering is our job,' is another. William Elliott is harming Canada more than taser boys did.
Posted 22/03/09 at 5:43 PM EDT

L.B. MURRAY from !! from Canada writes: PROUD CANADIAN 2008 WRITES : ...''In October 2008, an off-duty RCMP officer who was one of the four officers involved in the Robert DziekaDski Taser incident, drove while intoxicated and collided with motorcyclist Orion Hutchinson, who died from the incident.''
_____________________________________________
What? If that is true, no wonder the top RCMP are trying every spin in the book. How about staying CALM under pressure? People in every walk of life have to stay CALM under pressure.... doctors, firemen, construction workers, miners, babysitters, moms and dads when a child gets injured, and so on....

So, now we're subjected to some meisterspinning, this time from the RCMP.

No thanks. We've had enough of that from our politicians, bankers and so on...

Good bye!
Posted 22/03/09 at 5:43 PM EDT

martha stewart from Canada writes: As someone who has been personally injured by a stapler, with a drop of blood eventually coming from the hideous wound, I just want to emphasize that no four brave men should risk such a traumatic event and, if they have uniforms and a belly full of doughnuits and beer, they should kill anyone who has one.

Someone who cannot speak English or French, and this could not read the warning labels on said stapler, should be pre-emptively killed just in case.

I sure hope the Polish government doesn't roll over on this. The logical thing to do would be raise a worldwide tourism boycott on Canada, and especially on the Olympics if the RCMP protects these criminals that work for them.
Posted 22/03/09 at 5:45 PM EDT

Geordie Lad from Canada writes: Nonsense Elliot
Obviously the first course taken by lawyers and Horsemen is 101 arrogance.
Posted 22/03/09 at 5:46 PM EDT

geraldine veleti from MILAN, Italy writes: To all of you that are finding someway of justifying what the RCMP did - THINKI- what if it had been your son, or your brother, or yourself being tasered 5 times by 4 HUGE police men? What if your son, or brother had DIED. Would you still be defending them?? They could have tasered him once. You mean 4 HUGE RCMP cannot handle ONE very man holding a stapler. What if he had been holding TWO STAPLERS???? Would they have machine gunned him or what??? There is NO excuse or believable explanation for what they did. Their actions caused the death of a man and they should be judged on that by our judicial system, not be promised that if they testify they will not be held legally responsible. IS THIS DEMOCRATIC CANADA OR A BANANA REPUBLIC???
Posted 22/03/09 at 5:47 PM EDT

Hmmmer ? from Canada writes: WOW did you all hear this;

A man in Kenora was arrested and relaeased today for attempting to scare several RCMP.

He stood on the sidewalk and 'Brandished a Semi Auto 9mm Staplerator'!

Officers said afterward, while comparing notes, that they will need sooo much help getting over the abject fear they all felt.

One of them cried while another drank a bottle of scotch and took off in a cruiser to get some space!

'It's widely known that the Staplerator is a favorite weapon of new, lost, despondent, starving immigrants who can't communicate with our govt.' said 'Minister Kenney'.

The man then, just walked away with his 'Nine', yo!

Hmmmer. Things that make ya go, kachunk-kachunk-kachunk-.... kachunk-kachunk....kachunk-kachunk-kachunk!
Posted 22/03/09 at 5:48 PM EDT

Neo Cynic from Nassau, Bahamas writes: J Birch from Hamilton, Canada: Just because some gloopy rozzes went bezoomy and oobivatted a merzky ded, and got loveted for all to viddy, we have to put with more sodding RCMP chepooka about 'pressure'?

I get a good smeck at the zvook of spoogy millicents who escape a stint in the staja for tolchocking a poogly sod who snuffs it by platching on about 'job stress'. At least such nadmenny prestoopniks should chumble an appypolly loggy.
Posted 22/03/09 at 5:49 PM EDT

Just Me from Oakville, ON, Canada writes: I am sitting at my desk to write this. As I write, my lethal weapon, a wicked Bates 30000 stapler is at hand.

Please do not tell the highly trained police lest they break in and try to arrest me for possession of a prohibited weapon.

Please give me strength to not pick up my stapler should 'they', the highly trained and community supportive police (here to serve and protect only their own being), break in.
Posted 22/03/09 at 5:50 PM EDT

L P from Canada writes: Sorry, my fault.
Posted 22/03/09 at 5:51 PM EDT

Linda Dial from Canada writes: Commissioner Elliot seems to have forgotten whom he is supposed to serve and protect. The RCMP belongs to the people of Canada, it is not his Force. No need to cover its sorry a$$ in this case, Mr. Commissioner, the requirement is to whip it into shape. Scolding the people of Canada about his unconscionable management of OUR force is unacceptable and as one Canadian I will not accept his admonishments.
Posted 22/03/09 at 5:52 PM EDT

best west from Canada writes: Perhap to satisify alot of the people attacking the RCMP the mounties should get rid of the Tazer and just shoot those people that chose to threaten them. Or just perhaps it might more sense if people would obey police orders and not threaten them. Perhaps if any of these bleeding hearts had ever had to face somone wanting to harm them they woukd know what they are talking about.
Posted 22/03/09 at 5:56 PM EDT

Still Learning at 78 from Canada writes: If this is the thoughts of the head Honshu, Mr Elliot them we are all doomed. This man's explanation does not make any sense. What is the RCMP's job, to protect or shoot first and don't ask any questions after.

These fellows have a problem with the truth and they are called on for testimony in a court of law, God help the accused.
Posted 22/03/09 at 5:59 PM EDT

Jane Rowdy from Pluto, Canada writes: All police officers should be trained in crisis intervention and have the ability to deescalate any situation with out using force of any kind.

If they are unsure of the person they are confronting they should use the tools they have available like the gun restistry.

They can then determine if the person owns a legally registered weapon. If they are not registered they probably do not own a weapon.

At this point they should have nothing to fear, talking in low tones and throwing their weapons on the ground in front of the person will build trust for the officer.

At this point or shortly thereafter with soothing, low toned talking the suspect will surrender.

How hard can being a cop be, my gosh they mostly stop speeders rarely confront dangerous criminals and few die in the line of duty.
Posted 22/03/09 at 5:59 PM EDT

Will Farnaby from writes: Setting aside for the moment the (shall we say) all-too-typical RCMP reluctance to come clean, and the lies told by the thugs - er, I mean the police officers involved (one of whom has gone on to claim another innocent life) - the comment by 'Al B' cuts to the heart of the matter... the entire homicide-by-taser incident is not only a disgrace, it's a fiasco.

If this group of... police officers... cannot deal with a distraught individual holding a stapler, using their bare hands (employing any number of well-known techniques), or even pepper spray, then they clearly do not belong on any police force.

Now, when are the RCMP and those that caused this death going to be held responsible for their actions and their deceptions? Where is justice?

Al B from Canada writes: Four against one. Where's the pressure?
Posted 22/03/09 at 5:59 PM EDT

Neo Cynic from Nassau, Bahamas writes: Stop the insanity.
We need a nationwide stapler registry now!
Posted 22/03/09 at 6:01 PM EDT

Life Insurance Bribe from Canada writes: Recently over a dozen workers were killed when their helicopter crashed into the ocean off the east coast... more died in that one instance than all the police killed in Canada over the past several years.

I guess the next time a worker 'loses it'/drives drunk/gets in a brawl etc., the police should cut him/her some slack & not make an arrest... after all, workers' jobs are dangerous & we must not rush to judgment about their behaviour.

Give me a break. Time to burst the balloon around the sacred Canadian police and their oh-so-stressful jobs... if you can't handle the responsibility, can't make correct decisions.... go get another job... one where you won't be able to retire at 45-50 with a full pension.
Posted 22/03/09 at 6:02 PM EDT

Rockin Johnny from Calgary, Canada writes: So what you are telling me is that four(4) trained RCMP officers cannot take down a disoriented Polish immigrant because they fear for their lives. Come on GIVE ME A BREAK! These four guys are boneheads and should be fired.
Posted 22/03/09 at 6:03 PM EDT

Geordie Lad from Canada writes: Perhaps Elliot's ego was inflated after his trip to Kandahar. I doubt if the insurgents there use anything and dangerous as staplers.
Posted 22/03/09 at 6:04 PM EDT

geraldine veleti from MILAN, Italy writes: To best west from canada - How could that poor man obey police orders when he did not speak one word of english. And as far as threatening - come on be serious. A STAPLER????????? The RCMP are becoming a laughing stock over this stapler . I can agree that tasering could be allowed in a real danger situation, but if you go and read all the cases where people have been tasered you might change your mind. what about the native girl who was tasered in her prison cell because she was peeling paint off the wall and refused to stop doing it. are we going to condon tasering her????? and what about the guy in his car tasered because he didn't show his documents fast enough. WAKE UP - WE ARE TURNING INTO A POLICE STATE IF WE ARE NOT CAREFUL.
Posted 22/03/09 at 6:05 PM EDT

snowy lander from Edmonton, Canada writes: Cut the cops a break. You socialist wingnuts will not understand the horror of being confronted by a stapler until it happens to you. The humanity. . .
Posted 22/03/09 at 6:05 PM EDT

L.B. MURRAY from !! from Canada writes: RCMP Commissioner Elliot, since when is it part of your job description to admonish the people of Canada. Since when, exactly.

It does not seem to be part of your job description and you are giving our beautiful country another ''Black Eye''. Friday, it was some minister in our ''new government of Canada'' denying access to Canada to a democratically elected Member of Parliament in the United Kingdom, no less.

Meanwhile, let's ''bring democracy and free speech to Afghanistan''.

Enough. Quite enough.

Where will this nonsense stop. I'm retired, a bit over 65 and I have seen a lot in my lifetime, but NEVER, EVER, anything like this. I have travelled a lot, am multilingual, am very well treated wherever I go from coast to coast in Canada, the USA, Europe, Asia and I've never ever seen anything like what's going on today in Canada with tasering an airline passenger to death by our RCMP....

Unbelievable... What next??
Posted 22/03/09 at 6:06 PM EDT

Still Learning at 78 from Canada writes: Mr Elliot are you still going to keep these fellows on staff if they are not jailed?
Posted 22/03/09 at 6:06 PM EDT

bob london from Canada writes: BC RCMP made me hate cops forever and yes they are not to be trusted. Tell your kids to find a HA to be safe not the snot striped cops.
Posted 22/03/09 at 6:07 PM EDT

Peter Kells from Bytown, Canada writes: When you screw up the best course of action is to recognize the error, correct what can be corrected and admit you are human. The worst course of action is to make excuses and try to cover up the truth of the matter.

Our New Commissioner seems to be acting in keeping with the style of our New Government of Canada - never admit a mistake, blame your predecessors for every problem that you encounter and/or lament the difficult situation in which you find yourself and claim it is not of your doing but never ever ever take responsibility for the outcome of your actions.

The New Commissioner is Mr. Harper's man to reinvent the RCMP - it appears that his new style of management is no more than an implementation of the modus operandi of the New Government of Canada.
Posted 22/03/09 at 6:10 PM EDT

John Keynes from Lotusland, Canada writes: William Elliott..... 'You are responsible for your team member actions.... You do not want to accept responsibility for your team..So.........You're fired... Get outta here!'
Posted 22/03/09 at 6:10 PM EDT

Jay Dubya from Canada writes: Pressure - baloney. Four armed, trained RCMP officers agaisnt one unarmed man - what pressure, four to one ... if that's pressure maybe they are NOT fit to be RCMP officers.

The RCMP are suppose to professional - they need to start acting like professionals. Excuses don't cut it. I don't buy it.
Posted 22/03/09 at 6:11 PM EDT

geraldine veleti from MILAN, Italy writes: Snowy lander, you are so right. I have never been confronted by a stapler and i pray it will never happen to me. The thought alone is so frightening. Oh my goodness ..................... i SEE a polish guy coming at me with a stapler. SOMEONE CALL THE RCMP PLEASE.
Posted 22/03/09 at 6:12 PM EDT

A. Nonymous from Market Correction, United States writes: I have started a stapler registry at work. All staplers must be locked in desk-drawers while unused, and stored unloaded.
Staplers and staples are stored in separate locations.
Employees must show identification to be issued with staples. Only 10 staples will be issued at one time.
Only one staple remover is allowed in the office, and special training is required to use it.
All employees must show a valid stapler marksmanship certificate.
Posted 22/03/09 at 6:13 PM EDT

Alan xxxx from Canada writes: After this idiotic statement Elliot needs to go... I've lost faith in him if he thinks the Taser 4 havnt at the very least been criminally negilient
Posted 22/03/09 at 6:13 PM EDT

Neo Cynic from Nassau, Bahamas writes: Alright already. I am sick to death reading all of these..., these professional snivellers, ...who second guess members of our constabulary when facing the possibility of horrendous injury, nay, even death!.

What do you know about the horrible threat posed by the humble stapler? It can be a vicious tool in the hands of the demented.

Prove it. you say?? Prove it!

Go educate yourself about the unspeakable trauma of anal sphincter injury from transanal inserted staplers. It is a medical fact.
Posted 22/03/09 at 6:15 PM EDT

martha stewart from Canada writes: If the RCMP does the unthinkable - but possible with their groupthink - and does not fire these goons, they should be put on a public list like dangerous pedophiles and any community they are assigned to should be warned of their presence.
Posted 22/03/09 at 6:19 PM EDT

Jimmy's Lunch from Canada writes: That excuse is as lame as the actions of the cowardly cops who murdered an innocent tourist. We all have stress, and they are supposed to be trained to deal with these situations- doncha know, eh?
The RCMP are extremely incompetent at their job lately, and show how weak they are even in large numbers like 4 or 6 against 1 unarmed man.
Look at the Ian Bush murder by a cop who was a wimp up north, the list is endless and the people have a right to demand better protection.
I like when the fat ones put their knees on the back of a 'dangerous criminal' who was trying to resist or get away (aka as breath due to the blubber pressing down on his lungs), and then he dies from suffocation.......
Trigger happy drunks(many drive drunk too!) are what most people think of now when they hear the letters RCMP.....
Posted 22/03/09 at 6:19 PM EDT

don dickson from vancouver, Canada writes: Two points:
1. The RCMP dragged their feet on this for so long that it is no longer possible to 'rush to judgement'.
2. I understand that being a night clerk in a convenience store is statistically more dangerous than being a police officer.
Posted 22/03/09 at 6:22 PM EDT

mike sty the Coalition Centrist from Canada writes: Mike Sharp from Victorious, Canada writes: On you marks, get set, go!
----------------
The starter was 2 minutes late for the start ............ Had to get his prescripted talking points from myCampaign.
Posted 22/03/09 at 6:23 PM EDT

geraldine veleti from MILAN, Italy writes: Where can we write to this Elliott guy to protest over what he is saying and what the RC MP are doing. I tried on the RCMP website but there is nowhere where one can email to protest or give an opinion etc. WONDER WHY????????? Does anyone know where we can write??
Posted 22/03/09 at 6:24 PM EDT

Bad Bob from Canada writes: It is going to get to the point where we will ask the gangs to come and protect us from the RCMP.
Posted 22/03/09 at 6:25 PM EDT

R. M. from REgina, Canada writes: Telling people not to judge would go over like a rock in the G&M forums....I mean all you have to do is read above or choose any forum you want. At least most of these peeps will never have to be worried about being selected for jury duty as a few questions would soon disqualify them, such as:

1. Q: Do you believe you can be unbaised? A: No.
2. Q. Do you form your opinions before you have all the information? A: Yes.

Next.
Posted 22/03/09 at 6:26 PM EDT

Walter Funk from Canada writes: 'Mr. Elliott said he would ask Canadians to reflect for a minute before they jump to conclusions.'
-----------
Is there any indication he ever asked the RCMP to reflect for a minute before they jump to tasering?
Posted 22/03/09 at 6:27 PM EDT

Ned Chiwalski from Oilberta, Canada writes: The once proud RCMP's have turned into glorified meter maids, good for basic trafic violations at most....
Posted 22/03/09 at 6:30 PM EDT

Jack K from Victoria, Canada writes: I work at a psych hospital and have been in a relatively similar situation countless times i.e. very agitated individual who could cause someone harm. After watching the video I couldn't help but think that a good team of well trained people ( like the great people i work with) could have got him under control fairly easily without him being tasered or killed. Four grown men vs one man = four men who would only have to use 25% of their strength to control that one man. It's scary, but with a group it's not that hard to get someone under control with non-violent physical techniques. The language barrier is not as big an issue as many think too, as most of our communication comes from from non-verbal cues like body language and tone. The cops did a very poor job and should be held reponsible
Posted 22/03/09 at 6:30 PM EDT

Neo Cynic from Nassau, Bahamas writes: A. Nonymous from Market Correction, United States: Madness.
Staplers don't kill, people do.
And they'll only take away my stapler.....from my cold dead hand!
Posted 22/03/09 at 6:31 PM EDT

mike sty the Coalition Centrist from Canada writes: RCMP chief defending these four terrorists.......

Warning signs of Harpers march towards a fascist state....

Obsession with Crime and Punishment under fascist regimes such as the Harper CONservatives, the police are given almost limitless power to enforce laws. The people are often willing to overlook police abuses and even forego civil liberties in the name of patriotism. There is often a national police force with virtually unlimited power in fascist nations
Posted 22/03/09 at 6:32 PM EDT

Xiao Xiong from Toronto, Canada writes: Let's let the inquiry determine what the facts are speculating about it here is silly. On the other hand I think the right balance has been struck now with the new taser policy: It is appropriate to use a taser on someone who is a 'clear threat' and it was wholly inappropriate to use one on someone who was merely 'actively resistant'.

Whatever the commissioner says there is no justification to use a taser on someone who is not a 'clear threat'.

I do understand that an officer might make a mistake and believe there is a clear threat when in retrospect there wasn't one, but the device should never be used when the officer only perceives that there is 'active resistance' without any clear threat.
Posted 22/03/09 at 6:33 PM EDT

D Hathaway from Canada writes: Sadly, the commissioner is completely out of touch with reality ... which might explain the actions of his employees at YVR. While it is true that most of us don't have to face hazardous situations on a daily basis, we pay police to do so. We expect them to be screened for that duty, trained to do the job, and judged accordingly. In the months leading up to the inquiry, we were told by the RCMP that once 'both sides' of the story were told, public opinion would change. Wrong. The RCMP looks far worse today than it did when the inquiry began. The reasons are simple: Wildly inaccurate statements from the officers involved and weak explanations for their actions. What the commissioner should do is apologize for the fatal mishandling of the YVR incident. Instead, he continues to try and defend it, in the face of overwhelming evidence that the members involved SCREWED UP. Which causes me to conclude that 'we' (taxpayers) need to restructure the RCMP, from the top down. The commissioner should be fired immediately, and we'll carry on down the line until every last apologist is gone. If that results in a total collapse of the RCMP, so be it. Provincial forces are next. Sad, in my view, but it doesn't look like we're being given a choice.
Posted 22/03/09 at 6:33 PM EDT

Tom Swan from Canada writes: Thank goodness for the video!

I can't believe that this actually happened in Canada and involved the RCMP. These officers have shamed Canada and the once proud force.

There is no question that appropriate charges against these men should have been laid, in the torture and murder of Mr. Dziekanski. How ridiculous for the RCMP to investigate itself, with the result that charges would not be laid!

Elliott's comments are also shameful, inappropriate and ill-timed during an inquiry, especially for a lawyer. Unbelievable - did he even watch the video?

At the end of the inquiry, the RCMP should take appropriate action by laying charges and taking disciplinary measures, instead of trying to cover it up and condoning it. If left unattended to, it will never go away and the RCMP's status and reputation will be damaged forever.

The eyes of the world are on us - do the right and honorable thing and admit guilt in this matter. If Elliott doesn't take this action, he should be removed from his post.
Posted 22/03/09 at 6:33 PM EDT

Howdy Hicks from Elephant in the Room, Canada writes: Lock up cops blah blah blah Lock up staplers blah blah blah I know best blah blah blah

What the thread reveals is the level of intelligent thought and debate Canadians are capable of, eh. I mean geeze.. I remember when Canadians were better people .... where did it all go wrong - was it Trudeau that set the rot in - compounded by successive governments?

There are so many hateful & ignorant posts. Canadians really have turned into a nation of little nasty people.
Posted 22/03/09 at 6:34 PM EDT

John A from Calgary, Canada writes: Further to my previous comment I would like to add that I agree whole heartedly that what the RCMP do for a living is much less dangerous than what numerous other Canadians do to take home the bacon. Try this on for size, drill a sour well 0.8 kilometers from a elementary rural school were if you $crew up you kill numerous children and co-workers, meaning that you have to be on the ball 24/7. Their are many more people die in the oil industry so that the RCMP can drive their vehicles drunk when off duty, I think everybody is aware of what this refers to. These men (again I use the term loosely) consciously chose their proffesion, don't hand me this c#@p about we don't realize how things can down so fast, that is a COP OUT. They are supposed to be trained for these situations, instead they either paniced or let the testosterone take over, either way they should be in jail just the same as any other ordinary joe would be if they killed somebody. In this case the RCMP killed a man needlessly and are attempting to cover it up, sweep it under the carpet or justify it, call it what you want, either way its still manslaughter!
Posted 22/03/09 at 6:35 PM EDT

geraldine veleti from MILAN, Italy writes: I found it .... I knew it was there somewere .... I actually found two........ A large one and a smaller one ..... Now i have TWO staplers to prototect me ........ With two staplers who nees an allarm????
Posted 22/03/09 at 6:35 PM EDT

Louis Boutet from Ottawa, Canada writes: Perhaps Commissioner Elliott should consider « walking a mile” in Robert Dziekanski’s shoes before asking US to be understanding. He was shown very little tolerance, let alone understanding. He was killed. The general public is tolerant, willing to understand, but they have a little less tolerance for lies, cover ups and crimes committed in the name of justice.
Posted 22/03/09 at 6:36 PM EDT

mike sty the Coalition Centrist from Canada writes: Where is Byer Lyer???? Did s/he use up his 100 gazillion free monthly G&M comments????
Posted 22/03/09 at 6:37 PM EDT

okanagan pakman from Canada writes: One jolt with some restraint and perhaps EMT help probably would have spared his life and maybe ended the obvious mental crisis he was having... 5 jolts and a pounce killed him....everything has its proper dose

A training/experience deficiency seems most likely here....i'll bet that none of the officers involved is glad they were on duty that day

As much as we fear 'big brother' it seems that citizens armed with cameras present a formidible 'monitoring' system for police
Posted 22/03/09 at 6:40 PM EDT

Bill Campbell from wbcampbell@eastlink.ca, Canada writes: Well, I did not read thoroughly all over 288 comments but a detailed scan points out that Mr. Elliot and RCMP officers are going to continue to be critized without consideration by a lot of Canadians. For those who do rush to judge please tell that to the families who lost loved ones when RCMP officiers are shot in the line of duty, tell that to the four police officers who were killed today in the US, perhaps if they had taken more time and been more sensitive to the situations they find themselves in all too often, they would not have been killed. I wonder?
Please for the love of God people back off. These folks like our soldiers in Afganistan are well trained individuals who are dedicating their lives and putting them on the line continuously.
Situations like this do not unfold like some CSI one hour program....they do not even unfold exactly as a review of the situation says nor the video tapes of a scene.
I for one would want any of those Officers acting on my behalf when any type of situation develops
Just a little discussed at peoples rush to judgment when they do not know and cannot know and never will know...until put in that situation...then we would see.
Bill Campbell
Posted 22/03/09 at 6:42 PM EDT

Narsultan Tulakaby from Canada writes: Unfortunately between tasering an unarmed man and then obviously regurgitating prepared and ridiculous testimony, the RCMP continue to make a strong case to have themselves abolished.
Posted 22/03/09 at 6:43 PM EDT

chris vb from Canada writes: it may not be a case of judging the officers that use tasers , but the tasers itself!!! perhaps these critters are more lethal than is the accepted standard in law enforcement.
Posted 22/03/09 at 6:45 PM EDT

Kevin Desmoulin from TO, Canada writes: He asks us to reflect a minute, The 4 officers that kill this man did even give him 30 secs to calm down and maybe reflect a minute.
What, are these people trained?
Protect the police at all costs, even if they kill people.
Posted 22/03/09 at 6:46 PM EDT

Andy * from Canada writes: Come on Bill not the same situation at all!
Posted 22/03/09 at 6:47 PM EDT

laro for pm from toronto, Canada writes: Anybody else sick and tired of almost all police getting off for their crimes against the citizens that pay their salaries. Anybody?
Posted 22/03/09 at 6:48 PM EDT

Neo Cynic from Nassau, Bahamas writes: On hearing of Canadians' mortal fear of staplers, the Taliban have began laying I.S.D.s, improvised stapling devices, all around Khandahar.

In fact, when one of our patrols detected what appeared to be from a distance of 100 yards, a Rear Loading, AntiJam, 2 To 150 Sheet, Black Stanley-Bostitch Heavy Duty Stapler, it called in an airstrike killing 157 Afghans, 104 being children.

A CF spokesman chastised Canadians for rushing to judgment because they were ignorant of the pressures faced by your typical soldier.
Posted 22/03/09 at 6:49 PM EDT

Jim Hope from Saint John, Canada writes: Hey..Neo Cynic from Nassau Bahamas ... What language are you speaking??
Posted 22/03/09 at 6:50 PM EDT

R O from PoCo, Canada writes: Seeing is believing and that video never lied, unlike the for RC's. Someone should be answering for the 'Death' of that individual, if our criminal courts want to whitewash it then hopefully our civil courts make them pay in the pocket book.
Posted 22/03/09 at 6:50 PM EDT

Esmerelda in Alberta from Calgary, Canada writes: The criticism of the RCMP is well-deserved. This is an absolute disgrace, and is not the first time they have lost the confidence of the public. The commissioner asks Canadians not to 'rush to judge' the officers involved, but as one reader already said, THEY most certainly rushed to judge the actions of this distraught but innocent man. The goons involved couldn't even get their stories straight on the witness stand. And has the RCMP ever issued an APOLOGY to Mrs. Dziekanski? Or is that too much to ask?
Posted 22/03/09 at 6:51 PM EDT

geraldine veleti from MILAN, Italy writes: I hope the RCMP read these comments. This is what a lot of canadians think of you and of your actions and of you cover up. The idea that they are beyond judgement is scary.
Posted 22/03/09 at 6:53 PM EDT

Bad Bob from Canada writes: Sorry Bill Campbell but the event in the US was not anything like what this is about. Those police were fired upon by a weapon not threatened by a stapler. Not quite the same thing unless our RCMP are sissies. These individuals seem not to be very well trained from what we are finding out.
Posted 22/03/09 at 6:55 PM EDT

Walter Rilkoff from Canada writes: Tell me, Bill Campbell, because I truly do not understand and this morining as I picked up my family at YVR had the willies when I watched a RCMP officer come thorugh the same door that Robert Dzienski tried to open.

Does being put in the line of danger give you the right to go in and kill an innocent civilian before you have properly assessed the situation?

Does it give you the right to lie on your reports about what the situation actually was?

Does it give you the right to collaborate and get together with your fellow thugs to get your evidence straight?

Does it give you the right to taser someone contrary to your training?
One doesn't have to rush to judgement; from the officers own testimony we know all of that to be true.

If you accept that as acceptable behaviour rather than the thuggish behaviour of people who should not be in any police force and if you represent anything other than a tiny minority who support the RCMP no matter their conduct, then I fear for our country.
Posted 22/03/09 at 6:56 PM EDT

Mach Machiavelli from Lethbridge, Canada writes: William Elliott , Civilian Commissioner of the RCMP, must have had a conversation with the RCMP PR firm today, Sunday. What a perfect day to ask Canadians to not rush to judgment.

Perhaps he should have broadened his request, the whole world is watching (including Poland)...and the whole world will come out with a judgment after the inquiry has released its findings.

Best for William Elliot to keep his mouth closed and mind his words at this crucial time in the history of the RCMP.

Are Canadians having it proven that Stephen Harper made another bumbling fumbling mistake in appointing a civilian commissioner (of the same political persuasion) ?
Posted 22/03/09 at 6:57 PM EDT

Toxic Planet from Left Right Left Right, Canada writes: 'Don't rush to judge officers who used taser, says RCMP chief'

This is correct, it is the job of police, in this case the RCMP, to use overwhelming force to subjugate the client, in this case a man who couldnt speak english, lost in a strange airport. Good work boys!

Chief Wiggum: Hey, I'm the Police Chief here. Bake him away, toys.
Posted 22/03/09 at 6:59 PM EDT

I learned from that from A mari usque ad mare, Canada writes: I am confused. A police officer is sworn to enforce the law and is empowered to use force in certain circumstances. The pressures faced by police officers are indeed enormous. However, a police officer must not cave in to pressure; he must use judgment and restraint. That is why our police are so well paid compared to police in other jurisdictions. The death (apparently by electrocution with 5 hits of 50,000 volts) of Mr. Dziekanski has sadly made me feel ashamed to be a Canadian. It has made me doubt an organization, the RCMP, for which I previously had much respect. In reality, I have lost confidence in the RCMP. What saddens me the most is the sense of entitlement of the RCMP, as shown by the differences between the officers' statements and the video, by the apparent falsification of the officers' notebooks, by the disingenuous answers at the inquiry, by the failure to acknowledge that excessive force was regrettably used? The lack of remorse is saddening. That sense of entitlement and lack of remorse is regrettably underlined by the Commissioner, Mr. Elliott, and his recent comments about the RCMP’s conduct at the time and during the inquiry. Normally, no comment is made when such matters are before the courts or some other trier of fact. I still hope that we have one element of 'peace order and good government' - an objective finding of fact at this Inquiry.
Posted 22/03/09 at 7:00 PM EDT

Neo Cynic from Nassau, Bahamas writes: Jim Hope from Saint John, Canada: Get with the program, its Clockwork Orange slang: http://www.kitt.net/clockwork.html
Posted 22/03/09 at 7:01 PM EDT

earl pearl from Canada writes: who cares what people in Poland think about the RCMP.

How many people want to play tackle with a sweaty, crazed erratic behaving stapler carrying foreigner. Thought so.

Problem with the situation is that the aggressor didn't see the seriousness of his own situation. Cops should have showed him a firearm first before they tazered him.

And would people stop referring to this device as a 'lethal weapon' like this guy had 5 bullets pumped into him. Lefty stupidity.
Posted 22/03/09 at 7:04 PM EDT

Jake Smith from Canada writes: A READER from Canada made some good points. However, this is more serious than letting some cops go for poor performance. These cops murdered a civilian, and collaborated in a cover-up.

The police chief should also be removed, since if one of us killed someone under similar circumstances, we would not surprisingly be sharing a cell with the punk that killed the cop's daugher here in Toronto.

Now, what would happen if the RCMP killed a son of a high ranking cop?

That would put the police in a dilemma!
Posted 22/03/09 at 7:09 PM EDT

Down.

2 comments:

vira said...

With greatest respect for Mr. Elliot he was never a police officer. I am disgusted with his comments, and the timing of them. Has he no respect for the public.

Anonymous said...

Comm. Elliott is asking us not to rush to judgment. That's hypocritical considering 4 members of his crew did exactly that when they confronted Dziekanski. I thought the goal was to first try to calm the guy down. These 4 and the RCMP management make a mockery out of the force. And I think the bleeding hearts on these discussions need to give their heads a shake and look at that video again.